Civil Air Patrol...what I have learned so far

I've been in my squadron for about a year. There are kids in my squadron so I've seen the cadet program first hand. The cadet program has more of a military structure than the adult program, so the kids are all very up on military protocol. That is what it is and it doesn't bother me either way. The kids are also up on learning leadership skills, on learning to speak in front of large groups, on learning to complete tasks by working in groups and on learning to handle assigned responsibilities. Those seem like good things to me but I could see how others would consider it to be brainwashing. :sarcasm: Especially because all the kids that I see want to be there and want to learn what they're learning.

I'm sure there are some really noble people with some very noble motivations for what they do. I have been around the bush military wise myself and I do agree that any sort of military training can be highly beneficial to the development of youngsters. Hey, learning to follow orders, act responsibly and within reason and in a respectful manner is not necessarily conveyed by playing computer games or trying to find as many ways as possible to compensate for the lack of attention many kids have in their home households. However, there are always people with power and control issues involved and I think what struck me the most is this hobbyists approach to being part of the military. My personal impression was that senior members (as pilots) have the option not to walk in CU's nor do you have to wear a AF Jet Helmet. Being neatly arranged, behaving well, and dressed to minimum code does the trick of representing this AF Auxilliary well, in my opinion.

But, like everywhere, there are always people who have to take it to an extreme, and show off what good soldiers and leaders they would have made if the AF actually ever saw them. It saddened me to see a 15 year old acne plaqued kid kicked out of the program (he happily left!) and the subsequent "Why did you expell my kid?" calls that followed. I have seen kids who where not there by choice, and no, not all of them want to be there or do that.

Comparing CAP with the "Hitler Jugend" is tasteless and a sign of missing brains, I will do my best to point out the differences to those who feel the need to associate Germany with Hitler 60+ years after this wipe is gone. I perceive it as an insult of intelligence to be so flatbrained. There are more people in the U.S. celebrating Hitlers Birthday, than there are in Germany. :banghead:

If the "Flying Wing" of CAP would focus their attention on fostering Aviation alone, maybe even with the premise to use it as a recruiting tool for the AF, without the hype generated by people who swing bick dicks but have never actually (and obviously never) served in any military function (for whatever reason) I would feel more inclined to be a part of it. Some of the meetings I attended looked like precanned well rehearsed "soldier game" sessions.

I found some of the programs available very interesting. I just can't bare the guts to sit through hours of meetings discussing issues some wing may have (with no obvious goal orientation) until someone swings the hammer and calls it off. In the meantime I look out the window and observe a 20 year old female in uniform drill some kids on how to walk a straight line. Yelling and leading at the top of her lungs, she appeared like a robot on steroids. What tremendous power and control issues she portrayed. I would not want my child (if I had one) exposed to such personalities.

I considered joining because I would love to be a part of SAR operations again, as I have been in my prior life. So, I did not approach it with a closed mind, they litterally turned me off by not being efficient. Different wing, different game, I guess.
 
I agree, but at many local chapters, the bad people are already entrenched too far to do any good.
That's a cop-out. You're correct that the bad eggs get pretty entrenched, but most of 'em have one foot already in the grave, so it's simply a matter of waiting them out. Til then, there are plenty of opportunities to make a bad situation better, if that's the nature of the unit near you.
 
That's a cop-out. You're correct that the bad eggs get pretty entrenched, but most of 'em have one foot already in the grave, so it's simply a matter of waiting them out. Til then, there are plenty of opportunities to make a bad situation better, if that's the nature of the unit near you.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure how much one person can fight that kind of momentum. In my particular case with my cadet squadron (this was 1987 or so) none of the entrenched bad eggs were going anywhere. And one right-thinking individual would not have been able to fight entropy, as it was.

KWIM?
 
I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure how much one person can fight that kind of momentum. In my particular case with my cadet squadron (this was 1987 or so) none of the entrenched bad eggs were going anywhere. And one right-thinking individual would not have been able to fight entropy, as it was.

KWIM?

Entropy is probably the wrong word, there was plenty of order, it was just a structure designed for certain induhviduals to gain the most benefit from. It shafted most other cadets though. Institutionalized hazing not = good.
 
"Mphmhmhmhmhmmmmm! Muhmumuhuhuhmumum!!!!" Thank God my better sense has me gagged for this one. ;) I will say that I heartily agree with the guys who say that if you're committed to doing it (may God have mercy on your soul), try not to be a toolbag and "improve from within". That said, if you really want to serve your country, have you considered joining the Guard or the Reserves? If you branch correctly, you can still get one of those snappy flight suits that drive all the women nuts. ahahahahahhaa. ahaha. aha. ahem. ahahaha.
 
To be fair, that mileage is pretty deserved. German U-boats had killed hundreds if not thousands of troops and destroyed millions of dollars in materiel headed for Europe and the US Navy didn't have an adequate anti-submarine warfare on the eastern seaboard at the time. It was a turkey shoot for the Germans, waiting outside the major ports and picking off troop and cargo ships at will

Come on, dude. Seriously.

Yeah, sure, good on those guys. Nice work.

It's the way those events have been enshrined over the last 60 years that I'm shaking my head at.

My squadron killed 100x (literally) more bad guys and destroyed more stuff in one 4-month OEF rotation last summer than the CAP did during a couple years 60 years ago.

Bearing in mind what the real military did during WWII, it is astonishing how CAP people cling to a couple scores and elevate that to mythic status.

I'd respect it a lot more if it were looked at as a mere footnote in the organization's history. Instead it is held up as the crowning moment, and every CAP person I talk to has to bring it up.

It's actually pretty sad. It reminds me of the 45 year old dude who is still trying to get mileage out of the touchdown pass he threw at the homecoming game when he was in High School.

NapoleonDynamite_450x325_MCDNADY_FS004_H.jpg
 
I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure how much one person can fight that kind of momentum. In my particular case with my cadet squadron (this was 1987 or so) none of the entrenched bad eggs were going anywhere. And one right-thinking individual would not have been able to fight entropy, as it was.

KWIM?
Totally.

I've been fighting the good fight for over 20 years now, making things better where I can, and begging out of the fight where I can't.
 
Always said by people who don't wear flight suits for a living.
And to add - the real military benefits from height/weight standards which makes a flight suit at least presentable on most of them.

Most of the primary IPs in Army flight school are civilians and they can really fill out a flight suit in all the wrong ways. Nothing like looking like a green stay-puff marshmallow man.
 
Come on, dude. Seriously.

Yeah, sure, good on those guys. Nice work.

It's the way those events have been enshrined over the last 60 years that I'm shaking my head at.

My squadron killed 100x (literally) more bad guys and destroyed more stuff in one 4-month OEF rotation last summer than the CAP did during a couple years 60 years ago.
Let's reframe your argument a bit, shall we?

How much destruction did SAC's ICBM arsenal wreak during the cold war?

And for all the stuff your squadron blew up in that 4-month OEF rotation, has it deterred the enemy in the slightest?

Exactly.

Now in that light, let's look at the WWII CAP Coastal Patrol. For an insignificant amount of dollars in the war budget, a bunch of civilian pilots flying puddle jumpers mounted a deterrent so effective that the German Navy was forced to scrap its eastern seaboard attacks. THAT is the important thing, not the "stuff destroyed" scorecard.

So what's the significance today? Well, what's the significance today of Billy Mitchell's sinking of a captured German destroyer? It was a turning point, that's what. Just as Mitchell demonstrated the viability of air power, CAP's coastal patrols--some of the original Homeland Security missions--showed that general aviation can serve a useful purpose in the defense effort. Rather than simply saying "ground 'em all for the duration", CAP's coastal patrols demonstrated a cost-effective utility that is still being leveraged today. And THAT is the point.
 
Let's reframe your argument a bit, shall we?

How much destruction did SAC's ICBM arsenal wreak during the cold war?

And for all the stuff your squadron blew up in that 4-month OEF rotation, has it deterred the enemy in the slightest?

Exactly.

Now in that light, let's look at the WWII CAP Coastal Patrol. For an insignificant amount of dollars in the war budget, a bunch of civilian pilots flying puddle jumpers mounted a deterrent so effective that the German Navy was forced to scrap its eastern seaboard attacks. THAT is the important thing, not the "stuff destroyed" scorecard.

So what's the significance today? Well, what's the significance today of Billy Mitchell's sinking of a captured German destroyer? It was a turning point, that's what. Just as Mitchell demonstrated the validity of air power, CAP's coastal patrols--some of the original Homeland Security missions--showed that general aviation can in fact serve a useful purpose in the defense effort. Rather than simply saying "ground 'em all for the duration", CAP's coastal patrols demonstrated a cost-effective utility that is still being leveraged today.

This post=CAP Torpeod
This thread=German sub
 
Still not buying it. Still seems like the ol' "glory days" guys relishing great work that was done in the past.

As the song goes, "what have you done for me lately"?

I'm not arguing the utility of the CAP.

I am just saying that it's sad how much mileage the CAP continues to get out of a couple of events a long time ago.
 
CAP's coastal patrols demonstrated a cost-effective utility that is still being leveraged today. And THAT is the point.

He makes an important point. We'd all be speaking Chinese or Russian if it weren't for those 182s in Little Rock prosecuting the Drug War with utter single-minded heroism. Unsung heroes of the Cold War.
 
Hacker15,

They are volunteers, let them get whatever milage they want out of it. Its not taking anything away from what you do.
 
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