Citation 525 pilots help!

jgheggie said:
Ok. The links that @Houston posted were about the cj2. I'm not sure if the information would be the same if this particular aircraft is a deferent model.
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If you have the tail #, just google it and tell us what kind of CJ it is. I'm sure your cousin has it. Don't post the tail # here though.
 
jgheggie said:
So the 525 is a cj2? I wasn't sure the model. He just said it was a citation 525.
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The other way around sort of. A CJ2 is a CE-525. There are several variants of the CE-525. CJ, CJ1, CJ1+, CJ2, CJ2+, CJ3, CJ4, and now M2. They all use similar William FanJet engines.

I can't find a specific reference right now. I'll try to get one for you, but it will take me a couple days.
 
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The more important question to ask is, is he being pursued for potentially not putting PRIST in that aircraft? They have heat exchangers and do not need it as previously stated so the point is moot. The manager needs to call the pilot back and remind him to look in his AFM regarding the addition of PRIST, and how it is not needed.
 
Prist application is a total PITA if it isn't premixed. You have to use these stupid aerosol cans and plastic applicators. The mixing was never exact. I hated doing it when I was fueling the aircraft on the odd occasion. I'm sure that 1/2 of the line guys didn't do it right anyway. Think about it this way if the aircraft was fueled with Prist at all other times then wasn't fueled with 150 gallons which is likely 1/5 or less of the total fuel load. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE AT ALL. I know I've said it before but some owner idiot got a light came back to the airport and chewed out the fueler. Those bypass lights come on for the wrong reason a lot. I've seen it and I didn't yell at the fueler. The OPs buddy should call me. He didn't do anything wrong. Even if he didn't fuel the aircraft with Prist it should not have made the light come back on.

Also I'd like to know more details about the flight. Did he make it to altitude or not. If not then it certainly had nothing to do with the OPs friend. Check on that for me.

Plus:

This may help clear things up:
Cj1 = CE-525
Cj2 = CE-525A
Cj3 = CE-525B
Cj4 = I dont know because I stopped caring. Plus the aircraft didn't exist when I got the 525 type.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Prist application is a total PITA if it isn't premixed. You have to use these stupid aerosol cans and plastic applicators. The mixing was never exact. I hated doing it when I was fueling the aircraft on the odd occasion. I'm sure that 1/2 of the line guys didn't do it right anyway. Think about it this way if the aircraft was fueled with Prist at all other times then wasn't fueled with 150 gallons which is likely 1/5 or less of the total fuel load. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE AT ALL. I know I've said it before but some owner idiot got a light came back to the airport and chewed out the fueler. Those bypass lights come on for the wrong reason a lot. I've seen it and I didn't yell at the fueler. The OPs buddy should call me. He didn't do anything wrong. Even if he didn't fuel the aircraft with Prist it should not have made the light come back on.

Also I'd like to know more details about the flight. Did he make it to altitude or not. If not then it certainly had nothing to do with the OPs friend. Check on that for me.

Plus:

This may help clear things up:
Cj1 = CE-525
Cj2 = CE-525A
Cj3 = CE-525B
Cj4 = I dont know because I stopped caring. Plus the aircraft didn't exist when I got the 525 type.
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Thanks!

Pilot made it to altitude, and started the decent before getting the light. Flight was a couple hours long.

I found something else interesting. According to "the boss" the pilot called him at 1800 last night and said that he had the warning light in flight. He said he sumped his tanks and there was no dirt or contaminants. What's interesting is that he landed at 1745 according to flight aware.

So he sumped the tanks within 10 minutes or so of landing. Shouldn't you let the fuel settle for a while before determining that it is "clear and bright"?

I don't know...I'm trying to figure out other plausible reasons for the light to come on to ease my cousins mind a bit.
 
Unless there is pending litigation and there is an order to sample fuel from the truck that performed the upload, then stop worrying about it. You and your cousin are over thinking this and stressing out for no reason.
 
Goreman11 said:
Not to familiar with light jets, however sounds like something clogged the filter. I would guess it could be gelled fuel from not using the prist. In my short career I have only heard one story from a plane going down because they determined it was from gelled fuel from lack of prist.
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Yeah, you're going to have to share the story on this one because I really want to throw the flag on this..

The CJ, CJ1 and CJ2 all required PRIST (or other anti-ice additive); the CJ1+, CJ2+, CJ3, and CJ4 do not.

I'm calling BS on the pilot's claim. Sumping the tank most likely will not reveal what clogged the filter in the first place.
 
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So I asked the Chief Pilot about this and he had this refreshing comment.

"If you were the captain and you didn't observe the fueling because you were flirting with the CSR enjoying your coffee, well then it is your #$%* fault."

"You are responsible for what happens to your aircraft, not the guy making 7 bucks an hour."

So as I mentioned before. No worries. Pump some 100LL next time and see if any of the idiot pilots even notice.

Sincerely,

B.S.

(the guy that checks your fire extinguishers, the sump record and notes the yearly filter change)

Its called being a pro and anyone who blames a fueler for anything when you are the PIC and supposed to be PRESENT is a total wanker face.
 
A filter bypass light can come for a number of reasons and the pilot can't tell why.

Ice blocking the filter. Could be from water in the tanks too.
Dirt blocking the filter
Bad pressure sensor in the acft. The pilot is just trying to deflect eyes from himself.

At the end of the the PIC is ultimately responsible. Most 121 and 135 places I've worked at require one pilot to
be present to monitor fueling.

I haven't seen the cans of Prost used in ages. The trucks were either premixed or had a switch on the truck to add prist from a bulk tank on the truck during fueling.

I wouldn't sweat it. I had a colleague back in my line days leave a fuel door open and cap off. It messed the panel up pretty good but all he got was a warning. The PIC was ultimately at fault for not preflighting.
 
jgheggie said:
Thanks guys.

He was just worried because he really believes he added prist. He's positive in fact. But he's down on himself for the potential risk. He feels bad because he thinks he could have risked lives if he did in fact forget prist.
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If the fuel truck has a separate hopper for the prist and it must be manually selected when fueling (either a toggle switch or a selector switch) then they ought to be able to determine of prist was indeed added by looking at the truck fuel sheet and doing some simple math. IE; if there was less prist in the hopper post fueling than there was prior, he probably added prist. Should be pretty easy to verify.
 
I was a fueler as a PT job in college. 1 truck was premixed, 1 was a switch, 1 was "none" (5000gal truck for the bigger stuff). If guys wanted it, flip switch, verify prist tank, and pump. It would be very hard to come back and say "you didn't add prist" as nobody (hopefully) is bone dry on fill-up.

I don't have a Citation type, never flown one. I can tell you that I have seen the fuel filter caution on both a CRJ-200 and -900 when going to idle (either in the descent or on landing) and I guarantee it's not a prist/fuel temp issue (oil/fuel exchangers, even in -40C the fuel warms up in under 5 mins with a heavy load and is good thereafter). Either the sensor or a clogged up filter was the culprit.

Sounds like this guy is a jerk (complaintant). I wouldn't worry. If he wanted to make it an issue a fuel sample would have been taken from the plane and truck, not to mention the fueler is an employee and under the FBO/fuel service liability/insurance.

Fwiw- the plane kept flying, by design, in bypass. Turbines burn anything it seems (although the Mx may get large afterwards).

Sounds like the pilot had a contaminant, false indication, or filter failure. Can't blame the fueler without taking a sample/Mx pulling the filter/checking the codes.

Tell your friend not to worry. If he is still employed, his boss probably knows all of the above and hopefully told the guy to pound sand.
 
higney85 said:
I was a fueler as a PT job in college. 1 truck was premixed, 1 was a switch, 1 was "none" (5000gal truck for the bigger stuff). If guys wanted it, flip switch, verify prist tank, and pump. It would be very hard to come back and say "you didn't add prist" as nobody (hopefully) is bone dry on fill-up.

I don't have a Citation type, never flown one. I can tell you that I have seen the fuel filter caution on both a CRJ-200 and -900 when going to idle (either in the descent or on landing) and I guarantee it's not a prist/fuel temp issue (oil/fuel exchangers, even in -40C the fuel warms up in under 5 mins with a heavy load and is good thereafter). Either the sensor or a clogged up filter was the culprit.

Sounds like this guy is a jerk (complaintant). I wouldn't worry. If he wanted to make it an issue a fuel sample would have been taken from the plane and truck, not to mention the fueler is an employee and under the FBO/fuel service liability/insurance.

Fwiw- the plane kept flying, by design, in bypass. Turbines burn anything it seems (although the Mx may get large afterwards).

Sounds like the pilot had a contaminant, false indication, or filter failure. Can't blame the fueler without taking a sample/Mx pulling the filter/checking the codes.

Tell your friend not to worry. If he is still employed, his boss probably knows all of the above and hopefully told the guy to pound sand.
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I think you're spot on. Especially the last sentence. Boss told him not to worry but to just double check prist every time.
 
Freezing points:

Jet A -40C
Jet A with Prist -40C
Jet A1 -47C

So as we see here, Prist does NOT lower the freezing point like many people seem to believe. I fly a particular plane that you will get the fuel filter light when close to them temps, (Prist or no Prist). Some pilots incorrectly think their fuel temp limit raises to JetA1 limits when they request Prist.
 
If your friends boss had any balls, he'd ask to see the maintenance write up after the guy had a mechanic investigate the issue.
 
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