Cirrus and R44 collide in Maryland

TIS/TAS/TCAS -- how about the Mk I iBall?

Anybody recall the Cirrus v. Tow plane/glider? In CO I think. Technology isn't the end-all-be-all.
 
It looks like the youtube video won't play and Liveatc.net took it off the forums after an "overwhelmingly negative response from listeners demanding it be removed". I actually do want to hear it, as I try not to shelter myself from this stuff. I hate blood and gore in general, but when it comes to aviation accidents, I want constant reminders that myself and everyone in the plane with me can easily become statistics before the flight is over. I feel that's pretty important for everyone who flies, but I understand why many can't stomach it.

A horrible event all around, mid-airs are up there with my biggest fears in life. Stay alert out there, guys.
 
It looks like the youtube video won't play and Liveatc.net took it off the forums after an "overwhelmingly negative response from listeners demanding it be removed". I actually do want to hear it, as I try not to shelter myself from this stuff. I hate blood and gore in general, but when it comes to aviation accidents, I want constant reminders that myself and everyone in the plane with me can easily become statistics before the flight is over. I feel that's pretty important for everyone who flies, but I understand why many can't stomach it.

A horrible event all around, mid-airs are up there with my biggest fears in life. Stay alert out there, guys.



That is clipped together back-to-back, so it's not real time for the transmissions. This was over a span of (I believe) 10 minutes.
 
Also, it begs the question, if the fixed wing props PA is 1000AGL and the helos PA is 700AGL, and tower told the Cirrus to maintain altitude until turning base leg, then who was not where they were supposed to be? A guess would be the Cirrus descended into the helo and the helo guys never had a chance.

Helicopters don't generally share the same traffic pattern as FW. In fact, in the same way that a "standard" traffic pattern is to the left unless otherwise specified, helicopters are to avoid the flow of FW, again unless otherwise specified or required, per 14 CFR 129(f)(1-2). Deviations are authorized and used, depending on circumstances, but generally this is followed, hence the different pattern altitudes and often, different patterns altogether, for times when helos are actually flying a pattern for training, etc.
 
Ah yes I see it's loading up again. Just heard it, damn that's rough, poor guys. Hell of a way to go. Interesting the controller told the SR22 to keep his altitude until the base turn and there is no response, just the accident. The controller said she had him in sight, I wonder if he kept descending thru her instruction and it was just enough to cross paths with the choppers?
 
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Ah yes I see it's loading up again. Just heard it, damn that's rough, poor guys. Hell of a way to go. Interesting the control told the SR22 to keep his altitude until the base turn and there is no response, just the accident. The controller said she had him in sight, I wonder if he kept descending thru her instruction and it was just enough to cross paths with the choppers?

That wasn't real time back-to-back so there probably were other transmissions in between unrelated to the Cirrus or the R22. My guess is the same as yours. I'm eyeing the Cirrus as the culprit, a new entrant to the traffic pattern.
 
Helicopters don't generally share the same traffic pattern as FW. In fact, in the same way that a "standard" traffic pattern is to the left unless otherwise specified, helicopters are to avoid the flow of FW, again unless otherwise specified or required, per 14 CFR 129(f)(1-2). Deviations are authorized and used, depending on circumstances, but generally this is followed, hence the different pattern altitudes and often, different patterns altogether, for times when helos are actually flying a pattern for training, etc.

I did a lot of my original training with the helicopter operator. Most in the early to mid 2000s. You will not find a better outfit for training. I know the area very well. The helicopter was not in the pattern. I can only guess, and don't want to speculate, that the helicopter was either departing from the operator's helipad or heading back to it. We used opposite pattern traffic while I was there and it would have been too far north east from where the 44 ended. The tower was activated long after I left so it's possible that the procedures have changed but I doubt it.
 
I did a lot of my original training with the helicopter operator. Most in the early to mid 2000s. You will not find a better outfit for training. I know the area very well. The helicopter was not in the pattern. I can only guess, and don't want to speculate, that the helicopter was either departing from the operator's helipad or heading back to it. We used opposite pattern traffic while I was there and it would have been too far north east from where the 44 ended. The tower was activated long after I left so it's possible that the procedures have changed but I doubt it.

Agree on the operations style. Generally, helos will either depart/arrive as you describe; rarely are we in any patterns of any kind and if so, generally an opposite pattern from the FW.
 
If it's the same controller that I'm thinking of, yeah, she's very good.



I fly out of JYO sometimes, and I know a few people here fly out of there a lot. What's this proposed camera experiment you speak of?

JYO can be a bit tricky for VFR traffic because of the proximity to IAD and everyone taking the same route in and out of the Blue Ridge slot. I've seen it get hairy there a few times, but they've been refining the recommended procedures lately to at least give them some logic.
..As far as JYO, I've only got a anecdotal knowledge of the proposed camera tower, so no incite there. I can tell you that the companies that fly out of there, the airport commission and the town all work very closely and meet regularly to discuss the continued safe operation in and out of there, especially VFR. I think given the vertical and horizontal funnel that we have to deal with, we work hard to mitigate the risks....
 
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I can only guess, and don't want to speculate, that the helicopter was either departing from the operator's helipad or heading back to it.

From what I've gathered, the R44 was in LH pattern on for the big grass between C and A doing an SFAR training. The renter was rated. The Cirrus was inbound from the west for 30. With the winds, I'd bet the R44 was using a paralleling pattern to that for 30.

Neal does have good little operation there. I got first exposure to Robinsons (and a few more gray hairs) there. It really has that family atmosphere there.
 
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