Don't you need 5 hours of PIC in type for multi instruction anyway? Unless it's "instruction."
Cheyenne PIC pay...
- Thread starter chrisreedrules
- Start date
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
The 5 hours is just for training for the issuance of a certificate or rating. It wouldn't matter in this case. Unless he was trying to get his instrument rating in the Cheyenne....
chrisreedrules Does your guy have his instrument rating yet?
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Two inexperienced pilots in a 400 is not a good idea. A 400 also is expensive to operate. You need to need to bank up your own supply of parts because parts are not easy to obtain for the aircraft.
A II would be better but I don't see insurance playing ball without requiring training and time in the aircraft with a qualified pilot before letting you guys loose on your own.
Personally I think the guy should start with a baron and go from there. Maybe a Cessna 414 or 421 if he must have pressurization.
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chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I've had all these conversations with the guy... I'm not here to hold his hand if he doesn't want it held. I've recommended a Baron and a Seneca etc... He is insistent on a twin turbine though. He doesn't want a Beechcraft (my suggestion was for a C90) because "they are too expensive". And I proceeded to tell him that I'm not sure why he thought that a Cheyenne would be any less expensive? They are both in the same ball park. And according to him, insurance isn't an issue. As a previous poster noted, you really would be surprised what insurance companies are letting pilot/owners get away with these days. And to answer one of the other posters, yes, he has an instrument rating. Would I trust him in IMC all by his lonesome? No. I'm the only one of the two of us who has ever actually flown through bad weather and icing and has experience handling the de-icing equipment. The more I think about it the more I really think this guy may just be getting way in over his head and I don't want to be the guy he pulls into the deep end with him. While I do feel capable of handling the equipement, I fear I will be baby-sitting him in it more than anything. And I would feel better with two proficient pilots up front not just myself. I might recommend a guy I know who regularly flies Cheyennes to sit with him for a while.
rocketman5150
Well-Known Member
Don't look at this as an opportunity to make a few bucks and log a few hours of TPIC. The opportunity here is to mentor your student in the acquisition, operation, and management of a cabin-class, twin engine, turbine powered airplane. This is the kind of experience that leads to full-time pilot positions; perhaps even Chief Pilot/Aviation Department Manager. At the very least, it's an experience that most pilots don't get. Use it wisely.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
Well said, thank you.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Quoted for truth.
No Cheyenne experience, but I've helped maintain a Chieftain. Here's the kind of money you're talking on parts for something like that.
Flap actuator: $3500.
Flap motor: $5000
Boost pump: $1000
Hydraulic pump: $1800-2000
Windshield: $17,000 (for a non-pressurized plane)
Deice boots: >$2000 each
Elevator spars (mandatory parts change per an AD): over $2000 a piece, with a 90 day lead time.
Remember, this is parts cost only and many of these have a lengthy lead time. None of those parts except maybe the flap motor can be changed in less than 4 hours and believe me once you're in this class of airplane you don't want the bottom dollar low bidder shop doing the work on your plane.
Somehow this guy needs to get the picture to buy about half of the airplane he thinks he wants and spend the rest on gas and maintenance. Like trafficinsight said in another thread way too many guys spend all their money on the initial purchase and don't have anything left over to keep it running. As the planes get bigger that problem gets more common and worse.
jrh
Well-Known Member
What is this pilot's typical mission? How much weight does he want to carry and how far does he want to go?
Going from piston singles to multi turbines seems like an odd jump, not just in cost and training requirements, but also in performance capabilities. I wonder if he really needs what he wants to get.
Going from piston singles to multi turbines seems like an odd jump, not just in cost and training requirements, but also in performance capabilities. I wonder if he really needs what he wants to get.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
Typical destinations include several locations throughout FL, GA, LA, TX, SC, NC, TN, AR, and maybe a few more that I'm not aware of. He likes to make the rounds to each place at least once a year and hates flying airlines. Plus vacationing to the Bahamas, Jackson Hole WY, and Maine for his family.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Right. I understand the idea of wanting turbines over pistons, but depending on the situation, it seems like a Caravan, Meridian, FIKI SR22, Baron, Silver Eagle Turbine 210, 400-series Twin Cessna, or a number of other completely different airplanes might be a better fit, and they'd be both cheaper and easier to fly as icing on the cake. It would be a fairly specialized mission to *need* a Cheyenne.
jrh
Well-Known Member
If I were him, I'd seriously consider a Meridian. If his family can't fit in the Meridian, or he's really insistent on having two engines, check into the twin Cessna piston lineup. If he's only flying by himself much of the time, I'd tell him to get a FIKI SR22 for himself and charter a King Air for any trips he wants to take with the whole family.
av8or91
Well-Known Member
Maybe this guy has a lot of money and doesn't mind spending that kind of money on maintaining and operating an airplane. To some people, money is not an issue (unlike most pilots). Although, it might be beneficial for him to have someone with him who has a lot of experience in the airplane and could really be there to teach him more than what you learn at Simcom or Flight Safety.
jrh
Well-Known Member
I would think this, except for the pilot's comment on a King Air 90 being too expensive.
If a King Air 90 isn't going to fit the budget, I'm not sure how a Cheyenne would do much better. The initial acquisition might be cheaper, but not the big picture including operating costs and resale value a few years down the road.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
This guy sounds like a prime reason the MU-2 has a SFAR to fly it now.
Pay2
Oberkellner
I would strangely recommend avoiding the Cheyenne 400. I work for a comany that operates Cheyenne 2s and 3s and we manage/maintain a 400. Be prepared to pay a lot for maintenance on either airplane, but the 400s are very scarce and even more expensive to maintain. Piper stopped producing them for a reason, they suck. The 3 is a teddy bear in terms of handling characteristics compared to the 2. Both the 2 and 3 do very well in weather.
I will restate what others have stated: get good training that includes instruction in the airplane. A Cheyenne is not a plane for a pilot with a newly minted multi cert.
I've enjoyed flying the Cheyennes, and you will too as long as you don't mind flying a plane where something is always not functioning properly. There aren't a whole lot of similarities between Cheyennes and king airs, so that experience may not be too usefull.
I will restate what others have stated: get good training that includes instruction in the airplane. A Cheyenne is not a plane for a pilot with a newly minted multi cert.
I've enjoyed flying the Cheyennes, and you will too as long as you don't mind flying a plane where something is always not functioning properly. There aren't a whole lot of similarities between Cheyennes and king airs, so that experience may not be too usefull.
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I'm thinking of trying to talk him into a Cessna 401 or 411 or something... I've been researching a lot about the different piston and turbine twins and I think that would be the best option for him. Now I just have to break his fixation on that Cheyenne.