Cherokee N12345 fly direct KABC.

Maurus

Maurus

The Great Gazoo
So I have been flying IFR x-countries over the past week with a couple of my students. So far every flight we have been cleared direct to either an intersection or an airport. Now normally I wouldn't complain but the problem is that we don't have the ability to fly direct. Do controllers even know what /U even means anymore?

Saying "Unable Direct" is kinda getting annoying as it is coming from multiple controlling agencies. I have gotten it from just about every controlling agency form Dayton to Pittsburgh up to Erie. Just curious if Controllers are starting to assume aircraft have IFR GPS's these days and are not really paying attention to equipment codes.


Just to add in for fun. My favorite radio call to day has been "Squawk VFR, change to advisory on the ground" as I flew into a non-towered airport. Dyslexia hits everyone at some point.
 
It happens a lot to me, when I didn't want the direct routing I would tell them that I need the filed route. If that doesn't work....(que the controller on the forum)...
 
Of course we know what /U means, or /W for high-flying, poorly equipped aircraft. We just don't see it that much anymore, especially in the EnRoute enviroment. We're so used to /G and /R that we almost just assume they're all equuipped with GPS. I can't tell you the last time I worked a /A or /U.

No offense, it's just that you seem to be flying the exception, not the norm.
 
I get that sometimes. It can get annoying because I fly/file /U. I usually reply with unable, but I'll take a vector.
 
If you want to get fewer direct clearances... ask for them. :sarcasm::D

On the serious side, controllers know what /U means... but, as davolijj said, there just aren't that many /Us up there anymore so they tend not to get noticed.

Automation may be a factor, too. I started out with non-automated radar systems and with them, you spend a great deal of time referring to the flight progress strips. The automated systems I used transferred some (but certainly not all) of the information on the strips from the strip bay to the radar scope. This started a tendency for me to focus more on the scope and less on the strips. As more information was added to the data blocks on the scope, that tendency increased to the point that it was no longer second nature to use the strips, rather it took a conscious effort to do so.

Of all the systems I used (ARTS II, ARTS III, DSR and the system it replaced) none of them showed the aircraft equipment suffixes in the data block. Although that information was on the strips, it frequently got overlooked. I gave many a direct clearance to a /U airplane because of it.
 
ATC RET 2003 said:
If you want to get fewer direct clearances... ask for them. :sarcasm::D

On the serious side, controllers know what /U means... but, as davolijj said, there just aren't that many /Us up there anymore so they tend not to get noticed.

Automation may be a factor, too. I started out with non-automated radar systems and with them, you spend a great deal of time referring to the flight progress strips. The automated systems I used transferred some (but certainly not all) of the information on the strips from the strip bay to the radar scope. This started a tendency for me to focus more on the scope and less on the strips. As more information was added to the data blocks on the scope, that tendency increased to the point that it was no longer second nature to use the strips, rather it took a conscious effort to do so.

Of all the systems I used (ARTS II, ARTS III, DSR and the system it replaced) none of them showed the aircraft equipment suffixes in the data block. Although that information was on the strips, it frequently got overlooked. I gave many a direct clearance to a /U airplane because of it.
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Thanks for clearing it up a bit. Went on another long cross country and didn't get one direct clearance. Someone must have seen the thread :p
 
davolijj said:
Of course we know what /U means, or /W for high-flying, poorly equipped aircraft. We just don't see it that much anymore, especially in the EnRoute enviroment. We're so used to /G and /R that we almost just assume they're all equuipped with GPS. I can't tell you the last time I worked a /A or /U.

No offense, it's just that you seem to be flying the exception, not the norm.
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Well if your in MEM and you've controlled Mesaba aircraft 436 it is /A right now.

We are always radar vector equipped.
 
Of all the systems I used (ARTS II, ARTS III, DSR and the system it replaced) none of them showed the aircraft equipment suffixes in the data block. Although that information was on the strips, it frequently got overlooked. I gave many a direct clearance to a /U airplane because of it.
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I've noticed this too.

If it's becomming too much of a pain, you could always put it in your comments/remarks. Maybe that will help? It'll atleast be a glaring reminder "NO GPS".

I've always found that working in an area where it seems everyone is using GPS, to say "We don't have GPS" and the controller gets the hint, whereas "Unable Direct" they'd then reply "Fly heading xxx, when able proceed direct".

I'm sure you already knew this though
 
jynxyjoe said:
Well if your in MEM and you've controlled Mesaba aircraft 436 it is /A right now.

We are always radar vector equipped.
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That's what I mean. When I first started here none of the MES SF34s were GPS equipped, they were all /A. Then the company started phasing in GPS on their fleet so we always checked before giving them a clearance. Now there's one or two which don't have GPS and it always catches us off guard when we hear "unable direct." Tell them to fix the GPS is #436 already :buck:.

JD
 
davolijj said:
That's what I mean. When I first started here none of the MES SF34s were GPS equipped, they were all /A. Then the company started phasing in GPS on their fleet so we always checked before giving them a clearance. Now there's one or two which don't have GPS and it always catches us off guard when we hear "unable direct." Tell them to fix the GPS is #436 already :buck:.

JD
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Hehe.

Tell you what, let's have a bake sale so we can buy you the rest of the brick to finish that stupid tower, then we'll worry about BS equipment on the Saab-o-matic.

Next time I goto TUP I'm requesting direct to NDB's.
 
tgrayson said:
A local MEM controller admitted to me over the phone that many controllers did not understand the limitations of /U or /A.
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Well to be fair the .65 is the only thing most of us are familiar with for equipment suffixes. Were not pilots so No DME Transponder With Mode C dosent make it obvious that there isnt a chance you have a GPS on board. Especially since odds are most planes do, so its worth the risk to say proceed direct and if you cant then give alternate instructions.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraf...cations/atpubs/ATC/Chp2/atc0203.html#t1846atc

Aircraft Equipment Suffixes [SIZE=-1]Suffix[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Aircraft Equipment Suffixes[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]NO DME[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/X[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]No transponder[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/T[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Transponder with no Mode C[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/U[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Transponder with Mode C[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]DME[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/D[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]No transponder[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/B[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Transponder with no Mode C[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]/A[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Transponder with Mode C[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
 
Alpha Lima said:
Were not pilots so No DME Transponder With Mode C dosent make it obvious that there isnt a chance you have a GPS on board.
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Oh, I understand, and my comment wasn't criticism. It's just that it's helpful for pilots to *know* what you don't know. The AIM leads the pilot to believe that ATC is perfect.
 
Alpha Lima said:
Were not pilots so No DME Transponder With Mode C dosent make it obvious that there isnt a chance you have a GPS on board.
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Don't forget about equipment code /G

It should be obvious as that is the code that should be used when an IFR GPS is on board. We have to have an IFR GPS on board to accept a IFR GPS clearence as a handheld of placarded "VFR only" GPSs can't be used.
 
mesaba flies /g? you guys got it good! we fly /antique and it makes me wonder why there are more dials and gadgets than a c-172. haha.
 
Alpha Lima said:
Well to be fair the .65 is the only thing most of us are familiar with for equipment suffixes. Were not pilots so No DME Transponder With Mode C dosent make it obvious that there isnt a chance you have a GPS on board. Especially since odds are most planes do, so its worth the risk to say proceed direct and if you cant then give alternate instructions.
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Sure I file /A and have a GPS on board. Too bad its a VFR GPS, and still can't fly direct (legally). If someone is flying /A or /U IFR, 99% (i'm sure there is an exception) of the time they cant take a direct clearance. Now I realize that the suffixes aren't up on the scope and now whiz bang GPS's are very popular with the GA crowd, especially those that fly serious IFR, so there will be a slip up every now and then. But if you know that an airplane is /A or /U, why bother asking if they can go direct?
 
Score one for /A. I guess i got an old spirit, what's so wrong with actually navigating from place to place, the way people did waaay back? Gimme some charts and DME and it's a ton more fun than flying /G
 
amorris311 said:
mesaba flies /g? you guys got it good! we fly /antique and it makes me wonder why there are more dials and gadgets than a c-172. haha.
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I know. I've sat in plenty of Captain America's.

You should see the cell phones the company has given to the captains to do the W+B. I just hand it to the FO, they seem good with those computer thingy's.
 
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