Yeah you are right, just like how I have people that can slide me into work, once I have the time. So I guess it works both ways, trying to determine a person’s character online is a difficult thing to do, I am not a bad guy, I’m just willing to do what I have to do to get the time... The people that I know are willing to overlook that I helped out a struggling American student in a down economy so that I could reach mins. to progress in my career. Like I keep saying and it keeps getting overlooked, non American working on visas are taking jobs away, non American working on visas are taking jobs away, non American working on visas are taking jobs away, non American working on visas are taking jobs away, on American working on visas are taking jobs away… You want to be angry at somebody...? you want to stop people like me from going to desperate measures to get flight time, go talk to the chief pilots that hire these foreign guys... I say 200 because then I have the mins. can pay to stay current and sit with the rest in the unemployment line. I am not looking to take anymore then what I need. You can do what you want; I’m not looking to have my 50k go out the door because I refuse to fly for low dollars. I love to fly… cant we just accept that aviation will never be the same, ever?
Cheap if not free flight training
- Thread starter SLOWRIDER
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
"It's not my fault, it's someone else's!" :dunno:
Sorry dude, I was trying to give you a solid piece of advice whereby you could give away instruction without undercutting.... but you keep blaming wanting to work for free on people with legal VISAs.... they're paying taxes like me, so they're not exactly a burden on us. You may want to consider moving away from SD to a place where you can get a flight instructing job. Also, check out the "1000 TT and less post them as you find them" thread for jobs you can get at low time to bump your time up over the "hump" you're at right now.
Most of us are really just trying to help - no need for you to get defensive.... but accept personal responsibility. It is NOT the Chief Pilots or the VISA'd CFIs faults you don't have a job.....
Sorry dude, I was trying to give you a solid piece of advice whereby you could give away instruction without undercutting.... but you keep blaming wanting to work for free on people with legal VISAs.... they're paying taxes like me, so they're not exactly a burden on us. You may want to consider moving away from SD to a place where you can get a flight instructing job. Also, check out the "1000 TT and less post them as you find them" thread for jobs you can get at low time to bump your time up over the "hump" you're at right now.
Most of us are really just trying to help - no need for you to get defensive.... but accept personal responsibility. It is NOT the Chief Pilots or the VISA'd CFIs faults you don't have a job.....
anthenry
Well-Known Member
Foreign students coming to the US and becoming rated instructors and then instructing other foreign studetns in the US is no concern of mine. Foreignors teaching foreigners is one thing; offering free instruction and undercutting an industry is another.
Justify it how you want, but don't expect help from others when you're bringing the industry down. We want to make the aviation community better. We want to improve quality of live and working conditions.
Justify it how you want, but don't expect help from others when you're bringing the industry down. We want to make the aviation community better. We want to improve quality of live and working conditions.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
You don't get it. You are taking a paying job away from a CFI who needs to pay the bills.
As for the foreign students: flight schools train students to be CFIs. The students can then instruct for a certain amount of time (up to a year I believe) before they return to their home country. I have no problems with this.
You're right in that aviation won't ever be the same, so long as there are people willing and ready to undercut other pilots.
esa17
Well-Known Member
I don't care why you you're "out of work" in regards to flying. The fact remains that I make my living teaching people to fly and have for years, I don't have another job. Sure times are tough but that is no reason to steal from other pilots. Make no bones about it, you are stealing from us. I'm not suffering for my craft but I'm not driving a BMW either. If you think you know what suffering is I'm willing to bet your are sorely mistaken. Aviation is a very small world and while you may be suffering short-term I can promise you what you are doing is the best way in the world to suffer long-term.
Plenty, you just have to work hard to find them. Not beg them to come to you by yourself out.
Again, I work hard to get paid with money for flight time.
Yeah it is because I'm working hard to get paid to do what you want to do for free.
Do what you think is best but consider the consequences.
So what the last few posts have said is that if it doesn’t affect you, then you don’t care. I’ll take that attitude too then. I was thinking I might get a person that had a friend, or knew of somebody that had hit a hard time, wanted to fly but just didn’t have the money, etc... Notice I chose ratings that required you to already have your license.... I'm not looking to give instruction to some person who doesn’t realllllllllly want it more than anything else.... And I know that person is out there, thought I might have an easier time finding them here..... And your right, only two that are in my direct area, but they happen to be two big schools.... Scandinavian Flight Academy, California Flight Academy and pretty much any other big pilot mill aside from ATP have the foreigners working for them. I am not blaming anybody, just what has impacted my decision to do this.... 1000TT and less..... Hahah right.
esa17
Well-Known Member
You are trying to give something away you paid to be trained for. That is the very antitheses of professionalism which will follow you and plague this industry for years to come.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
After writing two posts with excellent suggestions for you and being laughed at in both of them, I agree with Gonzo - I hope we don't figure out your name. I would have suggested that my company was potentially hiring in the next few months (and this is prior to the final 1500 hr bill), but I don't think I'd want someone with your attitude working where I'm at.
Goldmember
Well-Known Member
What does it take for you to get this? Maybe this scenario: you get your 135 gig and its going great. A guy walks in to your owner and says "hey, I'll fly that plane you have out there for $10 an hour where you're paying slowrider $20." Boss is a decent guy so he comes to you and says "slowrider, you're going to either take a pay cut down to $10 or be gone because this guy over here will do it for $10." So you take a cut down to $10 and are pissed but still flying. Then in a couple weeks, another guy comes in and says "hey man, I need to build some time, I'll fly that thing for free." Boss comes to you "fly for free or your fired." What are you going to do? This is what we talk about when we say you're dragging the industry down. And what you may or may not realize is that if 135 guy over here sees his 135 competition paying $10 an hour or FREE, guess what he's going to tell his guys? "Fly for $10 or I'll go find somebody who will because people are obviously willing to do that." God I hate this crap, I have to put up with it every new CFI we hire. They sit around all day devising ways to fly for free or pay to sit right seat, makes me sick.
Goldmember
Well-Known Member
One more thing, get out of mommy and daddy's house and move to where there are flight training positions, there are openings in plenty of places, including mine.
CFIT99
because of the implication...
you hit the nail on the head before I could!
That scenario happened at one of the jobs I flew at about a year ago, ended up demanding his pilots fly for free after someone said that he would...well ended up all the pilots quitting and to this day he can't find anyone to fly his 172's or 206's b/c he wants people to fly for FREE.
Please don't turn this PROFESSION into a HOBBY!
HAHA, MOMMY AND DADDYS HOUSE? OUT OF THERE AT 17 BUDDY... GOOD ONE THOUGH, AND LIKE I MENTIONED IN ONE OF THE FIRST POSTS.... IF ANYBODY HAD A JOB OR KNEW OF AN OPENING... LET ME KNOW...... :bandit: HAHA YOU ACT LIKE I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TEACHING..... IVE GOT ALMOST 1000 HOURS OF DUAL, AND I KNOW OF PEOPLE THAT DID THE SAME THING I OFFERED HERE, THEY ARE ALL EMPLYOEED WITH DESCENT JOBS FLYING... I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING...
muffinman
Well-Known Member
I think the point that we are trying to make is what comes around goes around. Just cause it sounds like a good and quick way to get the time does not mean its a good idea.
It's like borrowing money, at some point it's gonna have to be paid back.. In this case its after you have several years on the job, good pay and high seniority. Then some punk is going to come in and offer to do what you do for half the rate. AND it won't even matter if he does it better.
This is the same thing that happened with all the computer engineering and technical support jobs about 5 years ago. It doesn't matter if the customer complain cause the guys don't speak english.. They are paying them $1.5/hr over paying someone else $25/hr.
It's like borrowing money, at some point it's gonna have to be paid back.. In this case its after you have several years on the job, good pay and high seniority. Then some punk is going to come in and offer to do what you do for half the rate. AND it won't even matter if he does it better.
This is the same thing that happened with all the computer engineering and technical support jobs about 5 years ago. It doesn't matter if the customer complain cause the guys don't speak english.. They are paying them $1.5/hr over paying someone else $25/hr.
Right after the San Jose FSDO signed my temporary certificate, he told me "Don't work for free".
If you need some flight time, talk to the Young Eagles or something that like so at least your time is reinvested in the profession.
If I was a CFI and I just lost a bunch of students because another CFI is giving away product for free, I'd consider that highly unprofessional.
Times are tough, undoubtedly, but if it's hard to survive on a CFI job, it'll be even harder for other CFI's having to compete with "free" and "free" won't pay your loans anyway.
If you need some flight time, talk to the Young Eagles or something that like so at least your time is reinvested in the profession.
If I was a CFI and I just lost a bunch of students because another CFI is giving away product for free, I'd consider that highly unprofessional.
Times are tough, undoubtedly, but if it's hard to survive on a CFI job, it'll be even harder for other CFI's having to compete with "free" and "free" won't pay your loans anyway.
NickH
Uber Driver
Aside from you taking away work from honest working instructors of any nationality with your fly for free attitude.
As a flight instructor who is not an American citizen, I take great exception to this. For you to target the very small number of flight instructors who are attendng the very small number of schools that offer visas that allow employment, is simply a product of your ignorance.
Stop whining on an online forum and get out there and look for a job! The biggest problem you have is your attitude. With your hatred of foreigners I certainly wouldn't hire you into a business that issued any visas. Further I would suggest that by blaming others for your inability to find work, you are simply projecting. Your inability to recognise it shows that you are lacking in fundamentals as an instructor.
This, along with your stated desire only for hours and not to educate, may be the reason you aren't getting the jobs you apply for (if you're even applying).
muffinman
Well-Known Member
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Fantastic. You are going to make lots of friends in this industry.
I am done with you.
Ever watch the sopranos?
An episode or two! Couldn't really get into it though.
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