Charter or 121...i can't decide!!!

A

Atooraya

New Member
I'm going to keep this short and sweet cuz i'm in a predicament.

I currently work for trans states and i'm sitting pretty nice in the seniority list (top half and was hired a few months back). The pay isn't great, but i get the schedules i pretty much want. The travel benefits are great, and the health and dental insurance blow, but it's something.

I just got pretty much offered a job at the place i used to flight instruct flying citation's. The pay is MUCH better than FO pay ($54,000/yr) but there are no travel benefits and no health or dental insurance.

Now, the things i'm weighing out is this new charter gig is only 40 minutes away from my house, and i currently have to commute 2 hours a day via plane to get to my 121 gig. If i don't like the charter gig, i could always go to skywest, which has a domicile in my hometown.

What do i do! I'm still young (23), so i figure i could go charter, try it for a year and see which i liked better, and never have regrets later in my life. All i'd be giving up is one or two years at a regional that i'd be leaving in 6 years anyway.
 
this is so nice with the industry now. I have nice job security here at trans states (unless of course uncle hulas sells it out somewhere), and no matter what, i could always find another flying job because all the regionals seem to be hurting for pilots. If i don't like the 135 stuff, i'm definitley going to skywest.
 
Atooraya said:
I currently work for trans states and i'm sitting pretty nice in the seniority list (top half and was hired a few months back).
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If you're in the top half of the seniority list why don't you just upgrade? More money than the charter gig and TPIC.

On that note, holy smokes, you were hired a few months ago and are already inside the top half of the seniority list?!? Jesus. I sure don't know how to pick 'em, I'm lucky to move one number a month.
 
wheelsup said:
If you're in the top half of the seniority list why don't you just upgrade? More money than the charter gig and TPIC.

On that note, holy smokes, you were hired a few months ago and are already inside the top half of the seniority list?!? Jesus. I sure don't know how to pick 'em, I'm lucky to move one number a month.
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Here's the worst part, and i'm kinda embarassed about it :o

About 80 FO's quit TSA during the summer, and the company went on a frenzy to hire new FO's. I was in the 2nd class, and was number 15 of 30 in all of that jive. So essentially, I was number 55 of 70 FO's they hired in the first two months. Well, since then, ALOT of people have left for different regionals, and i had been hired with only 550 hours and 90 multi. As of right now, i'm up to 1000 hours, so i still have another year and some to get the captain upgrade minimums, which is why i can't upgrade yet
 
wheelsup said:
If you're in the top half of the seniority list why don't you just upgrade? More money than the charter gig and TPIC.

On that note, holy smokes, you were hired a few months ago and are already inside the top half of the seniority list?!? Jesus. I sure don't know how to pick 'em, I'm lucky to move one number a month.
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Well, if you flipped to the dark side (aka Pinnacle) you could probably hold CA before you're done with initial the way things are right now. You'd be DTW based, but there ya go. We had 4 DTW CAs slots go unfilled on the last vacancy, and another vacancy came out yesterday for 40 CA openings system wide.

I'm seriously thinking about putting my stuff in even though I don't meet company mins just to see if they say "Eh....good enough."
 
You know, you regional guys keep saying to go charter but I'm not really sure why. Our charter department treats their guys pretty well (10 "hard" days off per month plus Southwest pass benefits) but those get blown through constantly, so I'm not sure how hard they are.

You're gone all the time, you never know when you're going to be back home, etc. etc.

You'd be hard pressed to see me ever doing charter after watching those guys go through all the crap they see. I'd rather go to the freight side of things.
 
Charter is fun. Planes are faster, fields are shorter, trips are more interesting. BUT, charter is a lifestlye change. Getting hard time off is a very, let me say again VERY rare thing. Something to keep in mind should you need to move from/into another company. Generally its fun, but trust me you do not want to end up tossing bags sweat'in out on the ramp 30 years from now. For me I LOVED charter, it was a nonstop party. But it is not how I see my life 30 years from now. If your in aviation for the long haul, 121 or a great corp gig is the only way to go.

Just food for, well you know.
 
FSIPILOT said:
Charter is fun. Planes are faster, fields are shorter, trips are more interesting. BUT, charter is a lifestlye change. Getting hard time off is a very, let me say again VERY rare thing. Something to keep in mind should you need to move from/into another company. Generally its fun, but trust me you do not want to end up tossing bags sweat'in out on the ramp 30 years from now. For me I LOVED charter, it was a nonstop party. But it is not how I see my life 30 years from now. If your in aviation for the long haul, 121 or a great corp gig is the only way to go.

Just food for, well you know.
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i'm 23, not in a super serious relationship (read, don't need to get married for sex), and am trying to enjoy my life right now.

if anything, i can go to a major 5 years from now with 4000 hours with 121 and 135 time.

Also, if i chose charter, which i'm leaning HEAVILY towards, i would work there till a major hired me. It's either regional to build time, or charter.

Then i can choose net jets, or mainline, or HOPEFULLY, UPS/Fed Ex
 
Atooraya said:
i'm 23, not in a super serious relationship (read, don't need to get married for sex), and am trying to enjoy my life right now.

if anything, i can go to a major 5 years from now with 4000 hours with 121 and 135 time.

Also, if i chose charter, which i'm leaning HEAVILY towards, i would work there till a major hired me. It's either regional to build time, or charter.

Then i can choose net jets, or mainline, or HOPEFULLY, UPS/Fed Ex
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Well it sounds like you've got your mind made up! You won't be sorry, besides the little time off and no travel bennies' there is NO downside. If your in a position to get into it, hell give it a go and see if its for you, I dobut you'll be sorry that you did. You'll be amazed how well your treated and paid (most likely). Float in from town to town via a private jet is the ONLY way to roll brother! ;-) What type aircraft again?
 
I would stay at the 121 side. I wouldnt bet on getting in the leftseat of the CJ sooner then the leftseat of a RJ. Go to where you can get some PIC as soon as you can if all you want to do is get to the majors. I would have gone to the regionals but you need the ATP to get anywhere past the rightseat. I have plenty of hours to get the ATP but im not old enough. Im getting my turbine PIC doing charter, I have not been home in the last 5 days and I have no idea when im going to be home. But I like being out on the road.
 
the job pays this much flying citation 2's, 5's, and a falcon 10, just depends where they need me on.

i hear ya on the getting the multi-engine turbine PIC, but i'd really like to make some money for once in my life, and it seems like this may be the way to do it for now :o
 
Hold the phone, do you think you're actually going to get real training on ALL of those airframes? I don't know anything about business jets, but the Citation 2 and 5 might have the same type as the Falcon 10, but are they going to put you through a real part 135 training program for at least two airframes? That's not cheap in any way, and you can't log that time or be a required crewmember unless you've got a part 135 IFR SIC check out in each of the aircraft you'll be operating in including a real checkride with the 8410's filled out and sent into the FAA.

Otherwise you're just something to make the insurance company or the pax happy while they legally operate single pilot (though I don't think you can operate a Falcon 10 single pilot).
 
jtrain609 said:
Hold the phone, do you think you're actually going to get real training on ALL of those airframes? I don't know anything about business jets, but the Citation 2 and 5 might have the same type as the Falcon 10, but are they going to put you through a real part 135 training program for at least two airframes? That's not cheap in any way, and you can't log that time or be a required crewmember unless you've got a part 135 IFR SIC check out in each of the aircraft you'll be operating in including a real checkride with the 8410's filled out and sent into the FAA.

Otherwise you're just something to make the insurance company or the pax happy while they legally operate single pilot (though I don't think you can operate a Falcon 10 single pilot).
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the other fo's have that work at the company. The owner's are check airmen for the jets as well. and finally, some of the training is done while flying owners of the jets during part 91 flights.
 
Doesn't sound like much of a training program to me. We're spending 6 weeks to spool people up to go from never having flown part 135 before to flying boxes in a Piper Chieftain.

I can't imagine doing it in less time in a jet and actually have it be legit training.
 
I just got pretty much offered a job at the place i used to flight instruct flying citation's. The pay is MUCH better than FO pay ($54,000/yr) but there are no travel benefits and no health or dental insurance.
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Hey Atooraya,

I hope I can be of some assistance. I am not 121 and I have been doing the corporate thing for awhile now (6 yrs +) and we are about the same age (just turned 27). I would urge you not to make a lateral move no matter where you go. Also, I have been recruited by numerous places that have had flight schools and were successful and then though they could continue their success into charter and it just didn't happen. My advice to you is if you want to go to charter get in fractional. I am 27, I have had 4 jobs already in the 6 or 7 years I have been in corporate aviation due to the closing of flight departments. The key to corporate is hard times and the equipment starts getting sold off. Thats the negative side of corporate.

The positive side like someone said is the fact that I have had a wonderful time while building lots of hours, new destinations all the time, layovers in awesome spots to be laid over in. Also, even though I have been out of a job 3 times now I have had a job not to long after the other place shut down. So there is always great opportunity.

Any way you cut it, you will have to adapt to the bad things about the job and enjoy the benefits. My advice, stay where you are at until you get the opportunity to fly better equipment the 500 series is to slow. Apply to the fractionals they are hiring but you for sure wont be at the top of the seniority list. I know Citation Shares does not have a seniority list, it is all merit based and I know they are hiring like crazy!
 
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