Charging CFIs For Instruction Toward Additional Instructor Ratings

wow, i know you guys need money but that other cfi doesn't have any more money than you do! I think the courtsey thing applies more to fellow 'cow-orkers' sure you'd probably charge some joe off the street if he wanted to get his MEI, but a fellow instructor? come on, that just ain't right. not like your too busy to give a little time up either, if you are, you shouldn't be worried about the money then. Buy em lunch or a 6 pack instead.
 
ffccfi said:
I do have a problem with the flight school profiting off of their own employees.
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That's understandable, but before you get too upset you should realize that in most cases the money that the school takes from the student pay for things like office space, advertising, insurance, etc., and those expenses still exist even if the instructor is willing to work for free. A freelancer who has to gather students on their own, pay for their own insurance and rent an office will usually make about the same, or perhaps even less than an employee of a flight school who pockets half of what the freelancer gets, and when you look at it the school dosn't make as much profit as you might think. Employee or not, there are expenses that must be covered. That's also why the employees will be paying for the airplane while they are getting the instruction.
 
Snow said:
wow, i know you guys need money but that other cfi doesn't have any more money than you do!
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Well, of course he doesn't - he's busy giving away his instruction for nothing!

Snow said:
not like your too busy to give a little time up either . . .
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Well, I suppose if somebody wants to fly at 10 at night, or 5 in the morning, I'm not too busy . . .

Snow said:
. . . if you are, you shouldn't be worried about the money then.
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Why not? Isn't that why I work??

Snow said:
Buy em lunch or a 6 pack instead.
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My Landlord does not accept lunches or beer for rent.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Well, of course he doesn't - he's busy giving away his instruction for nothing!
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Good luck getting a better job than flight instructing with that attitude. Aviation is such a tight knit community, I'm not sure I would treat people that could one day help me get a job like this.

Not to mention it must make a very pleasant work atmosphere. The morale where you work must be top notch.
 
ffccfi said:
Good luck getting a better job than flight instructing with that attitude. Aviation is such a tight knit community, I'm not sure I would treat people that could one day help me get a job like this.
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Hey there, ffccfi!! Nice to meet ya!!

Now, back to the discussion at hand. It's interesting that you make that statement about a "better job". Because I (and the other CFI's at my flight school) make an effort to charge what we are worth, we don't need a "better job". If I went to a regional airline right now, I would take a 40% pay cut. So, if by better you mean regional, I just don't see that as a better job.

Also, how am I treating people? If another CFI wants to be a customer, he's a customer! Just as I would expect to be paid as a CFI, I expect to pay other CFI's if I need their services!
Not to mention it must make a very pleasant work atmosphere. The morale where you work must be top notch.
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Since you mention it . . . I run a tight ship, but it's a fun ship! I have no shortage of resumes on my desk at any given time!

Are you implying that the morale can't be good if the CFI's are paid well and have great equipment to fly?
 
As an interesting observation, the folks arguing for paying another CFI when working on new ratings or CFI certs are at least a few years older than those arguing for free 'professional courtesy.' Additionally, the older folks chiming in have typically had previous careers. Having owned and operated a successful business, I know that I firmly believe in being paid what I'm worth. I'm guessing Lloyd does, too, thanks to his military service.

Not saying that older = better or that it suggests anything at all about piloting skill, but where a person is in life has a pretty dramatic influence on how he or she views career, money, and time. I'd bet those differences in life-station are a huge factor in the disagreement about pay . . .

Off to eat some really good soup and cornbread with my wife! :rawk:
 
What about some form of a reduced rate? So far everybody has acted like it's an all or nothing deal.

I did an IPC for a fellow instructor a few days ago. I did about 45 minutes of ground review over regs, charts, etc. with her for free, then charged for the flight portion. That way I'm recognizing that she isn't just any old student, but I'm also making enough money to make it worth my time and pay for my gas to drive out to the airport. I thought that was fair.
 
It's free where I work. Mainly because if I give an IPC check today and I need a IPC check next week or some time in the SIM to keep my currency, I'd know that it would be free to me.
 
KLB said:
It's free where I work. Mainly because if I give an IPC check today and I need a IPC check next week or some time in the SIM to keep my currency, I'd know that it would be free to me.
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If a fellow at my flight school just wants a BFR or an IOC, or needs to go do some approaches for currency, I'm not going to charge him my time. I'd expect the same in return.

I think, however, that's a little different from somebody that wants to train for an additional rating.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Now, back to the discussion at hand. It's interesting that you make that statement about a "better job". Because I (and the other CFI's at my flight school) make an effort to charge what we are worth, we don't need a "better job". If I went to a regional airline right now, I would take a 40% pay cut. So, if by better you mean regional, I just don't see that as a better job.
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C'mon Lloyd flight instructing is not a real job. Flight instructors are just regional FO wannabee's are they not? Gee I cant wait to be a REAL pro pilot and do some REAL flyin' my freinds and family will be so impressed. SARCASM!
 
ryanmickG said:
C'mon Lloyd flight instructing is not a real job. Flight instructors are just regional FO wannabee's are they not? Gee I cant wait to be a REAL pro pilot and do some REAL flyin' my freinds and family will be so impressed. SARCASM!
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Yeah, I suppose you're right, ryan - who am I fooling??:p
 
Seniority and HOBBS TIME B*TCH!

I liked your message on frappr (that mapping thing on the main forum)
 
John Herreshoff said:
Seniority and HOBBS TIME B*TCH!

I liked your message on frappr (that mapping thing on the main forum)
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I thought you would like that.

Nothin but love John.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
If a fellow at my flight school just wants a BFR or an IOC, or needs to go do some approaches for currency, I'm not going to charge him my time. I'd expect the same in return.

I think, however, that's a little different from somebody that wants to train for an additional rating.
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I know Lloyd. We all know that they make you out to be the penny squeezer on here.:)
 
KLB said:
I know Lloyd. We all know that they make you out to be the penny squeezer on here.:)
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Not sure why they do!!

You can't say, "I'm a professional but I'm not treated as such - this industry suck and they expect me to work for nothing . . .", and in the same sentence say, "I don't wanna charge CFI's for my services"!!
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Not sure why they do!!

You can't say, "I'm a professional but I'm not treated as such - this industry suck and they expect me to work for nothing . . .", and in the same sentence say, "I don't wanna charge CFI's for my services"!!
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Yep. I had a student today that asked me why I charged him for a pre flight briefing that took about a half an hour. I only charged him .3 and he thought that it was too much.

On a thread hijack note. Did you ever get to sending me those CD's. I've been looking for 'em forever.
 
Just found out that my current school gives no breaks to employees who are getting their additional CFI ratings. Is is normal to charge an employee the full rate for the planes plus the current instructional rate of $45/hr. Just curious because this does not sound right to me.
 
What about not paying the flight school the extra cut? Lots of times, for purposes of currency, two CFIs will go up to safety pilot each other and remain instrument current. You could just have your colleague rent the airplane, and then have him pay you under the table. If the flight school asks, "we were just going flying." It is possible to keep everything under the radar.
 
sorrygottarunway said:
What about not paying the flight school the extra cut? Lots of times, for purposes of currency, two CFIs will go up to safety pilot each other and remain instrument current. You could just have your colleague rent the airplane, and then have him pay you under the table. If the flight school asks, "we were just going flying." It is possible to keep everything under the radar.
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Ya' rip off the flight school you work for sounds like a good idea till you get caught.
 
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