Charging CFIs For Instruction Toward Additional Instructor Ratings

ffccfi

ffccfi

New Member
Hey I just wanted to ask other CFIs their opinion and find out how the flight schools you all work for do things. I have always been under the impression that you do not charge CFIs for instruction once they get thier initial. Kind of like how cops don't write cops tickets. The flight school that I currently work for charges its own employees for flight instructions time at the same rate they charge customers. I understand that we have to pay for the airplane but I was very surprised by the policy of charging for instruction (and especially at the same rate as customers). I was wondering what some other CFI's opinions where (especially those who have trained other CFIs for thier II or MEI) and also how other flight schools treat this issue. Thanks.
 
If I'm a student in any sense of the word, I expect to pay my instructor and pay for the plane. If the guy giving me instruction is passing up a paid slot with a student to work with me, he should certainly be compensated!

The only time I've ever picked up 'free' instruction was during my single-engine commercial sea rating. The instructor was very cool and gave me 8 hours of dual for a couple of lunches and dinners. We had a blast and I still paid for the airplane. (Thanks, Dana!)

Cops SHOULD write tickets for other cops, and flight instructors SHOULD respect their brethren enough to pay them for their services. We're underpaid enough as it is . . .
 
Just to clear this up before people get the wrong idea. I NEVER expected not to have to pay for the airplane, nor do I have a problem paying an instructor for their time (at the amount they get paid). I know how much everyone at my flight school makes, because I make it to. I have a problem knowing that 2/3 of what I'm paying, goes to the flight school and not in the pocket of the instructor.
 
ffccfi said:
My point exactly!
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Nope. The emphasis should have been on: "flight instructors SHOULD respect their brethren enough to pay them for their services."

If you think you're worth more as a CFI than you're currently paid, change should start with your actions toward others. Whether you're a student pilot, a commercial multi MEI, or an ATP, pay your instructor unless there are some hefty extenuating circumstances. (Like my CASES instructor who happened to be a good friend and used me as an excuse to fly a float plane before our first students in the mornings.)

Professional courtesy is one thing, but expecting someone to do their job for free so you can save a buck is (IMHO) insulting, especially when you know they're underpaid to begin with.
 
Sorry, my last post was concurrent with your last post. Now that I see where your concern lies, I can understand the frustration with the flight school cut. On the other hand, most flight schools don't exactly rake it in, either. Many schools allow instructors to rent planes for basic costs and arrange payment with instructors individually for add-on instruction like seaplane ratings and tailwheel endorsements. One of my previous employers even did that for CFII and MEI, but I think that was well above the call of duty.
 
My point exactly. I do not have a problem paying the instructor for their time, I do have a problem with the flight school profiting off of their own employees.
 
I always offered, but never had another fellow instructor take the cash. MAybe it's just diff at my school. I agree, you need to offer since they could be making cash with another student. If they don't take it, offer lunch, dinner, a few beers, pick up some ground or flights for them if they want to take a few days off. My school charges a ton for dual, and we only see less than 20% of what is charged. Offer to pay the instructor 5 bucks more than he or she makes hourly. WE are all broke, and it's good professional ethic not to screw each other over, lol. I won't accept cash from another instructor, but i'll take a lunch, dinner, or a few adult beverages in trade. I did a II for a friend once, and he gave me 8 hrs in his 310!!!! Not a bad deal at all!
 
I agree with Dingo, it's a matter of professional courtesy. For example, MDs don't generally charge other MDs for services rendered.
 
aloft said:
I agree with Dingo, it's a matter of professional courtesy. For example, MDs don't generally charge other MDs for services rendered.
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what goes around comes around, I personally wouldn't charge.
 
Everybody in here keeps talking that "We're all broke" nonsense.

WHY ARE YOU INSTRUCTING FOR FREE??

OK, I'm done now.

If a Wings of Eagles CFI needs to do some approaches for currency or a BFR or an IPC, I'll do that for lunch. If that same instructor wants to add another rating, I'm on the clock just like anybody else!

If Joe CFI walks in off the streets, he's geting charged.
 
I don't buy the 'professional courtesy' line. If an MD needs a perscription written, that might be done for free. But if they want a double bypass, they're sure as heck gonna have to pay their doctor-buddy to do it. If an instructor wants a safety pilot for an approach or two or needs a BFR, that's one thing. But a new rating or CFI certificate is worth paying for.

What goes around DOES come around . . . if we don't value our coworkers' time enough to pay for it, they why should our customers? Save your pennies, pay your friends.
 
PhotoPilot said:
I don't buy the 'professional courtesy' line. If an MD needs a perscription written, that might be done for free. But if they want a double bypass, they're sure as heck gonna have to pay their doctor-buddy to do it.
Not necessarily true. My father is a dentist, and as a 'professional courtesy' he does not charge other dentists he knows personally for services. In fact one of his oral surgeon friends has done extensive dental surgery work on my family as a professional courtesy. I treat instruction to my coworkers in the same way. I will not charge them, but we do the work when I have time, ie in a break between students. If a person who I did not know (who was a CFI) came in and wanted instruction, I would absolutly charge them.
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Not trying to start an arguement, but I'll bet the oral surgeon was still paid. My parents are both doctors as well: the way it usually works is that they don't charge the co-pay or the deductible, but still bill the insurance company for the work that is done. I'd bet it was the same deal with your friend and the work he did for your family - nothing came out of your pocket but the surgeon was still reimbursed for his services.

It would be on par with paying an instructor their hourly rate but not including the flight school's cut.

Sounds like you strike deals with CFI-friends like what I struck with mine. She did my float rating for fun and as a way to get out on the water in the mornings before we had to start with our regular students. If you've got the availability, I think that's a great way to do things. I'll always be thankful for her willingness to share her time in the plane with me.
 
Philip said:
what goes around comes around, I personally wouldn't charge.
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I have to agree with this. I once asked somebody who helped me get a flying job I really wanted if there was anything I could do for them. They replied that I "pay it forward" and help somebody else and do the same thing they did for me.

Now it goes without saying you owe the instructor something for their time, such as a few meals or a few drinks. Plus you should do it at their convinience so that you are not blocking their schedule. Especially for MEI work, I feel as an instructor I would be lucky if another instructor asked me to do thier MEI so I could get the very valued multi time. The instructor instructing is also getting flight time that they might not have otherwise gotten. This is especially true when the schedule gets slow.

The excuse that everyone is using that we are poor, so why work for free...does not work! You have admited that instructors do not make much money, so why make another worse off financially by charging for your time. You are just adding to the vicious cycle! Of course I am only talking about in house instructors that work for the same flight school. Some random hojo walks off the street and wants his CFII, of course you should charge them because you don't know them from Adam. But one of your co-workers and charge knowing that they are paying $35 and you are only seeing maybe $15. This is not right.
 
Depends on the school. I've worked at two different schools and both had about the same policy. Cost of aircraft was at a discount as well as the CFI rate. Pay the CFI their normal rate minus the school mark-up
 
At my school we dont charge OUR CFI's for additional ratings. I think its professional courtesy IMO. On the flip side its also coutesy to offer the money to the CFI. Usally the pay tends to be a celebatory night of Jagerbombs and beers.
 
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