Chance of going UAVs
- Thread starter comstsa
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rpfeif
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bet on that detailer thing, friend or not. This comes from 16.5 years of experience
Roger that, sir...just taking away what was briefed to us at OCS during our aviation brief, but I will take your advise with a little more backing.
Totally agree on luck and timing (AF/Navy gets what they want), but the other things I listed were kind of a list of things you can do to try and set yourself up for success, and then wait and see.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I think that that's the most wild thing to think about. For some of those guys being in combat is a 9-to-5 gig for them. It blows me away, that's gotta be rough on ya.
Some are even complaining about post-traumatic stress with their UAV job.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/08/09/pilots-of-predator-drones-suffering-ptsd/
bunk22
Well-Known Member
Like anything, the most important thing is timing. Sure performance plays a big role but timing is it. Want tailhook, have the grades but no slots available, don't get to go tailhook. I wanted T-45/T-2's after my initial tour but along comes the evil FRS who needs 2 IP's asap. They took priority and I was forced to go. Bad timing.
My current placement officer is a good friend of mine but even then he can only do so much. It does help to know someon certainly but it just doesn't always help.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
This kid has served anyway from the looks of it. I would never take an opinion as valid from someone who has not been thee done that. I agree with you, doing something you like, especially if one is going to serve years in the military, is going to help in motivation department. Unfortunetly we don't always get what we want. Sometimes success is doing what you have to do as opposed to what you want to do. For example, a kid joins to fly but doesn't get the platform he wanted. It happened to me, I worked hard, got the grades but the timing thing and I landed E2/C2. But I was still flying and had to do what I had to do. Some of my tours sucked but seemingly, the last 6+ years in the Navy are going to be the best. Two great flying tours and a decent overseas tour.
Are C-2s based aboard ship, or shore based....ie- do the VRC units tie to the airwing, or no? And is it true they only day-trap? If so, why?
alphaone
Well-Known Member
Dude, by all means I want to fly something that has a cockpit. I don't want to get stuck in a UAV anymore than the next guy. All I was saying was IF you decide to join the Military you should be aware that you may have to do something you don't initially want to.
Did not mean to sound like a tool, just kind of a litmus test people can give to themselves before starting the process.
Did not mean to sound like a tool, just kind of a litmus test people can give to themselves before starting the process.
alphaone
Well-Known Member
Shack. Or am I not allowed to say that because I am a "non-military aviator"?
bunk22
Well-Known Member
All C-2A's or COD's are assigned to the airwing. They are both ship and shore based depending on the area and mission. Normally, especially east coast, they are shore based when the ship locates in an AOR. As of now, COD's trap only during the day.
There was a time when COD's trapped at night but only at the west coast squadron of VRC-30. I happened to be a part of that experiment. The idea behind I believe was to get a warfare designator for COD pilots. Prior to that time, if a pilot selected COD's as your initial platform, if he or she didn't switch to E-2's or something else, making O-4 was not easy. If you dont' make O-4, you're out at around 10 years. The last guy it happened to was in 98! So VRC-30 flew nights from 97-2000 while the DET-5 types (Japan based) flew nights all the way up to 03 or so. That means also that when I was an FRS IP, we flew nights at the boat as long as DET-5 did to prepare studs for the night flying. We prepared all the studs for night then picked the top night flyer to go to Japan. So in the end, I have about 120-130 night traps from both seats.
By rule, pax cannot land on the boat at night, so we used to take only cargo. Even then, it was rare because we could take care of all our cargo runs in the day. So the majority of our night traps were airborne respots. Meaning we would launch on the last launch of the night, marshall for two hours, then head on back down for a night trap about 0100. It just was not fun. Problem with night landings is that they are much more difficult than day so it takes a lot of practice. At the time, the COD's were not being SLEP'ed and all those FCLP's were taking away critical landings. We flew at least one COD to bone yard in 99 for it was out of landings. That particular COD was only 13 years old at the time! We also compared all of our night deployments with VRC-40's day deployments and it was obvious we weren't beating them in any of the logistic or pax categories. Meaning, we carried no more total cargo or pax flying night then they did day only. So in the end, with the beating the planes were taking, no extra benefit of flying nights at the boat (except for pilot proficiency....makes one a way better ball flyer in my opinion), the night landings for COD's went away.
DET-5 night flying stayed around longer due to the CAG out there liking it and they supposedly worked the spec ops side a bit more but I never heard of it. I think CVW-5 just like getting cargo at night. During OEW, the Kitty Hawk was night carrier (had only a few aircraft and COD's) and the spec ops boat I think. So the DET-5 guys would fly night cargo runs to both the Kitty and the other night player, the Eisenhower as I recall. Probably the only time the night thing was really beneficial.
So, long story longer and I'm done :clap:
Thats good info. Thanks for the information! IMO, every airframe has its cool points about it......C-1/C-2 would be no exception. Do you guys then have your own LSOs, or do Wing LSOs wave you? (I imagine squadron-level LSOs can only wave in their respective type aircraft?)
bunk22
Well-Known Member
We have our own field qualified LSO's and then use whatever is available. There are 5 types of LSO qual's...most folks work their way up to the third.
There is field qual which is just that, you get a letter designating you to wave the TMS of aircraft you fly.
Then there is the Squadron Qual in which you get after one 6 month deployment waving all the aircraft in the airwing...plus LSO school. When we flew day/night I earned my Squadron Qual but when we stopped flying nights, didn't get my next qual.
After two deployments of waving at the boat, CAG paddles can designate an LSO with a wing qual.
Next up would be a shore tour with either an FRS (F/A-18 or E2/C2) in which an LSO gets his training qual.
Once a training qual is had, the LSO can go on to be a CAG paddles. Usually only 2 per airwing. What's nice about being a CAG paddles is that you can cross train in another aircraft. Used to be better when we had more types of aircraft on the deck. For example, the current VAW-120 CO is a COD pilot (the first COD pilot to command the FRS by the way) and was a CAG paddles for CVW-5. He cross trained in the F-14 Tomcat, flew about 300 hours in. Most E-2 pilots are going to crosstrain into the F/A-18 of course but I know at least one who did the Prowler.
From their, a CAG paddles can compete for AIRPAC or AIRLANT paddles, the head LSO on either coast.
Now, in order to get your wing qual and on, have to wave at night and if you're not flying to the boat at night, no waving at night. Simply a matter of credibility as night flying at the boat is a different ballgame. I've only known two COD pilots to earn their wing qual and one is the CO of VAW-120. I had every intention of getting my wing qual but it didn't work out with the night thing going away. In retrospect, I didn't mind it, night traps sucked ass!!
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I believe it, imagine if you woke up every morning, went to work killed some people, then went home. Every morning. That's rough.
That's very interesting info. I never knew the varying levels of LSOs.
Funny thing you mention boat tours. A few guys I met that worked on carriers who were shooters or arresting gear officers were surprisingly from the P-3 community. Weird that they'd be doing that when they're not carrier aviators.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
It's kind of mandatory for them...at least to do a boat tour. It's their boat appreciation tour. Not all shooters are P-3 or E-6 types but they are the majority. I'm doing a one year dissasociated non-flying tour right now. Have to do that kind of stuff in the Navy.
Oh yeah, back when we flew nights at the boat, we COD drivers stayed on the boat. So for my first two deployments, I was on the boat 9 out of 12 months. Living on the beach is far, far better than staying on the boat. On my third deployment, we were on the boat for about 1 month out of the 5. That's what I'm talking about :beer:
