Challenger 604 copilot wanted, Luton based.

Stone Cold said:
So here's my guess...you are one of the captains and not happy about this arrangement. Best of luck to you. Spoken with experience in this same type of issue.
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Thanks! Been at this game a long time, and believe me, it's not easy. There is only so much the owner is willing to pay for crew, and $5,000/month is all I could get out of him for a third pilot.
 
cencal83406 said:
@Jetsteff Aviation ,

It truly is a different world over in Europe then. As far as I can tell, your job opportunity does look excellent for the right person. Stateside folks may be taken aback by your paying for a type, since we consider that "PFJ" or "pay for job" or numerous other acronyms indicating a personal out of pocket cost for what we Americans perceive to be part of the cost of doing business and hiring.

Just to give you an idea of where I come from, I would consider $5000/mo and an included type a pay raise, and I have almost 4500 hours.

This all being said, thank you for your candor, and I hope you find the guy or gal you wouldn't mind spending weeks on the road with, who will also be a good stick.
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As an American, I am against the way Europeans get into flying. I personally think that way too many get into jet airplanes long before they are really ready for that kind of flying. It's amazing to me that it's perfectly legal over here in Europe for someone with 300 hours total time to be able to pay a big pile of money to an airline (RyanAir) and somehow get a 737 type rating and go out and fly the line as an F/O with a load of passengers onboard throughout Europe, and all before you have 400 hours total time! That just seems downright criminal to me.
 
Despite that having a third pilot will allow the three of us to have a rotation, this is really a job for someone who lives near the base airport or at least within an easy and cheap commute. When the aircraft is at Luton, you are responsible for your own accommodation, transportation and food, etc. The other Captain lives 25 minutes away, so when we get back to home base, he's home. Me, I have to pay to put myself up somewhere. I used to keep an apartment locally, but now I just stay at one of the airport hotels that has given me a reasonable rate for a room. Although renting a room someplace local would be cheaper, I'm too old to do the college student/starving artist/starving copilot thing anymore.
Now, there is a chance that the owner might be willing to finance a person's type rating for them, via payroll deduction, but that hasn't been agreed upon yet, though I've asked for it. He's done it before, but he doesn't like to do it. He'd rather I hire someone who already has the type. And yes, I've already told him I'm not likely to find someone like that for that kind of money.

At the end of the day, we're not an airline or a Part 135 charter operation / AOC. This is a one-owner, private airplane, and the man offers what he offers. Either it works for you or it doesn't. My challenge is this - out of any and all who want the job, I need to find the right individual that will possess the best combination of pilot skill, professionalism and work ethic that I can find, and on top of all that, they have to have a compatible personality and attitude - which means getting along with me (oh joy!) and the other Captain. Both of us are big time into flying RC model airplanes, sports, working out at the gym when we can find one, fast cars, boating/sailing, and watching action movies, just to give you clue about what we're like. And by the way, the owner also has expressly indicated non-smokers only!
 
Jetsteff Aviation said:
Despite that having a third pilot will allow the three of us to have a rotation, this is really a job for someone who lives near the base airport or at least within an easy and cheap commute. When the aircraft is at Luton, you are responsible for your own accommodation, transportation and food, etc. The other Captain lives 25 minutes away, so when we get back to home base, he's home. Me, I have to pay to put myself up somewhere. I used to keep an apartment locally, but now I just stay at one of the airport hotels that has given me a reasonable rate for a room. Although renting a room someplace local would be cheaper, I'm too old to do the college student/starving artist/starving copilot thing anymore.
Now, there is a chance that the owner might be willing to finance a person's type rating for them, via payroll deduction, but that hasn't been agreed upon yet, though I've asked for it. He's done it before, but he doesn't like to do it. He'd rather I hire someone who already has the type. And yes, I've already told him I'm not likely to find someone like that for that kind of money.

At the end of the day, we're not an airline or a Part 135 charter operation / AOC. This is a one-owner, private airplane, and the man offers what he offers. Either it works for you or it doesn't. My challenge is this - out of any and all who want the job, I need to find the right individual that will possess the best combination of pilot skill, professionalism and work ethic that I can find, and on top of all that, they have to have a compatible personality and attitude - which means getting along with me (oh joy!) and the other Captain. Both of us are big time into flying RC model airplanes, sports, working out at the gym when we can find one, fast cars, boating/sailing, and watching action movies, just to give you clue about what we're like. And by the way, the owner also has expressly indicated non-smokers only!
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You get a kudos from me for being upfront about the situation. I award you bonus points.

You will do well with being straight forward rather than selling a load of bull - both you and the person that you hire will be on the same page from day one. I predict you'll find a young guy/gal that will work out well.
 
hook_dupin said:
I'm clueless here: why pay USD for what is essentially a UK job?
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As jboynm said above, it's a common thing. Most contract flying jobs all over the world pay in US dollars, wired to the account of your choice. It's up to you to deal with taxes, health insurance, etc. in whatever country you call home. In this particular case, the plane is nominally based in the UK, but the parent company has major offices and contract employees in 6 countries, so to make things easier and more practical for the company, they operate on a single currency across the board - US dollars. It reduces the accounting headache for them.
 
SteveC said:
You get a kudos from me for being upfront about the situation. I award you bonus points.

You will do well with being straight forward rather than selling a load of bull - both you and the person that you hire will be on the same page from day one. I predict you'll find a young guy/gal that will work out well.
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Thanks. I just want everything very clear up front, especially for those in the US and Canada that may be thinking about this job. It's really a good job for a younger, lower time person with no family just getting their career started, and gives them an opportunity to step right up into a bigger airplane much earlier than they might otherwise do it, especially if they want a career in corporate aviation. There is a bigger downside to this, though that I'm sure many have not thought about - it's a privately owned corporate jet - meaning that we don't fly many hours, so if you are low on hours, it will take you a long time to build them. I had several thousand hours flying piston twins and turboprops, most of it flying freight and working for a commuter airline, before I ever got into my first bizjet job, and even then, I flew for one of the busiest Part 135 operators in America, so I was still cranking out the hours (I averaged 80 hours a month for several years before I too my first Part 91 gig). Most single-owner Part 91 bizjets fly very few hours compared to the ones that operate on a charter certificate, so those of you considering this, keep that in mind. We average only 25 to 30 hours a month. If you want to just get in, fly out the term of your contract and walk away with about 500 to 750 hours of heavy bizjet time on a popular model of jet, then this works for you. You can then leverage that experience into landing a much higher paying position somewhere else. Of course, if you stick around, odds are good that you would be able to move up in responsibility and pay (I'm hoping to retire here in a year or two). This job is not the best - far from it - but it certainly is not the worst you could have in this market, that's for darn sure.
 
NickH said:
How do you like living in Luton?
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Well....... since I live in a local airport hotel when I'm there, my view would be a bit skewed. Having said that, though, I would not choose to live in Luton itself, I would live in one of the nearby towns or villages. Milton Keynes up the road is the closest thing to a town that is anything like an American town, and is where I would choose to live if I were going to settle down in the UK. I used to live in the Brighton Marina way down south on the coast, and I really liked the area, but the 2 hour commute to work got too darn expensive and I hated the drive.
 
Inverted said:
Rare opportunity how? A rare opportunity to get low pay AND pay for training? I am trying my best not to hijack but I am curious how this is a rare opportunity.
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I wasn't going to respond to this, but I feel I need to address this issue. Every time I hear similar comments, it seems to come from pilots with similar backgrounds and experience and a very narrow point of view. Allow me to share my view on this subject, which is colored by my personal experience during a career that spans 36 years, with 28 of those years in the cockpit, mostly as a corporate pilot.

So... "Pay for training?" No, not as a condition of employment. But you can't call it that if an employer is advertising a position for someone who is already qualified. If you want the job and you need to get a type rating or some other certification in order to get hired, that's called investing in your career - no different, for example, than going to school or taking specific courses and paying the cost of getting certified as an RN in order to get a good job in a hospital. Let me ask you this: Do you have a degree? If so, who paid for it? Who paid for your Private, your Multi, your Instrument and any other basic ratings you have? How is investing in a type rating any different than investing in any other part of your education and qualifications, especially if it makes you more competitive than the next guy?

I left home when I was 18. I paid for my own college education, all my certificates and ratings, including my first two types - the B737 (to try to get a job with Southwest many years ago) and the Challenger 600. Amazing how much easier it was for me to get a job with a good company once I had that Challenger type under my belt! And after a few years flying the Challenger for a company that sent me over to Europe for a couple years, it was a lot easier for me to get a job with the next company I went to work for, and they paid for my type rating in the G-II and G-III. They stated that they were willing to do that based on the fact that I had the other two types and had good international experience. Several years later, I went to work for another company that paid for my G-IV type, again because of my previous experience and type ratings. The same happened again with having my 604 type paid for. In each case, I didn't run off after getting the type rating. I stayed and worked hard for several years and made sure the company got the best return on their investment in me. The thing is, it has to start with YOU investing in yourself, to make yourself competitive. It says something about you when an employer sees that you are motivated enough to invest in your own future.

Back when I was a 1500 hour pilot, the best job you could get was flying a Cessna 402 to the Grand Canyon doing air tours. With an ATP, 2500 hours (of which 1000 hours were as ME PIC), I was lucky if I could get a small commuter to even look at me, and I would have been deliriously happy if I could have nailed down a job flying as copilot on a Beech 99 or a Bandit (EMB-110). I didn't manage to land a commuter job until I had over 3500 hours with lots of instrument and multi-engine PIC time (that was in 1986). I got paid the enormous sum of $900/month for the first year I flew for that major Delta regional. 2nd year pay was $1200/month, and by that time I was flying a 35 passenger turboprop operated under Part 121, and I still qualified for food stamps. Going into my third year, ALPA decided the pilots should go on strike. The only problem was that while you're on strike, you aren't working. I couldn't afford it so I started looking for a job right away. I eventually got lucky and managed to land a job flying right seat in a Lear 35 at the end of 1988. I've been a Corporate Pilot ever since.

So pardon me if I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone that thinks they shouldn't have to pay for a type rating in order to get a job that requires you to have one. You can thank all the jerks ahead of you who have been hired, given a type rating, and then run off to some other cushier job and left the employer hanging. That has happened so many times, to everyone from small one-airplane operators like us, to big corporations and airlines. We aren't asking you to pay for your type rating. What we are offering is a contract job for a type rated 604 pilot, on a 2 to 1 work - time off rotation based in the UK. No frills, no benefits and the pay is only $5,000 USD per month for the first year. We know the pay is low, so we realize we are most likely only going to get interest from lower time, less experienced pilots, and most likely none of them will have the type, or will have experience only in smaller aircraft. We understand that. If someone posts a job with specific requirements that you don't meet, and are not willing to meet, then ignore it and move on.

There's lots of people that are already lining up at the door. My problem is not in finding someone willing to take the job. My problem is finding someone willing to take the job that actually has some decent flying skills, as well as people management skills and a good attitude and work ethic, to fit in with us. A local European pilot would be ideal from a purely geographical standpoint, if they have the skills and can prove it. However, in trying to find just the right person, I'm putting the job out there on forums like this to try to get the widest possible range of candidates to choose from. I've shared far more information here about the job than most employers would, in an effort to answer as many questions as possible in advance. Most of the local European candidates are already familiar with all of this. Any North American or South American pilot who goes for it and manages to land this job, will come away from this job with strong international flying experience and heavy corporate jet time, including Atlantic crossings (we do one or two every other month or so). What's that worth to you? For a young, single, low time pilot looking at the daunting challenge of trying to get that first jet job, this IS a rare opportunity.
 
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Jetsteff Aviation said:
I wasn't going to respond to this, but I feel I need to address this issue. Every time I hear similar comments, it seems to come from pilots with similar backgrounds and experience and a very narrow point of view. Allow me to share my view on this subject, which is colored by my personal experience during a career that spans 36 years, with 28 of those years in the cockpit, mostly as a corporate pilot.

So... "Pay for training?" No, not as a condition of employment. But you can't call it that if an employer is advertising a position for someone who is already qualified. If you want the job and you need to get a type rating or some other certification in order to get hired, that's called investing in your career - no different, for example, than going to school or taking specific courses and paying the cost of getting certified as an RN in order to get a good job in a hospital. Let me ask you this: Do you have a degree? If so, who paid for it? Who paid for your Private, your Multi, your Instrument and any other basic ratings you have? How is investing in a type rating any different than investing in any other part of your education and qualifications, especially if it makes you more competitive than the next guy?

I left home when I was 18. I paid for my own college education, all my certificates and ratings, including my first two types - the B737 (to try to get a job with Southwest many years ago) and the Challenger 600. Amazing how much easier it was for me to get a job with a good company once I had that Challenger type under my belt! And after a few years flying the Challenger for a company that sent me over to Europe for a couple years, it was a lot easier for me to get a job with the next company I went to work for, and they paid for my type rating in the G-II and G-III. They stated that they were willing to do that based on the fact that I had the other two types and had good international experience. Several years later, I went to work for another company that paid for my G-IV type, again because of my previous experience and type ratings. The same happened again with having my 604 type paid for. In each case, I didn't run off after getting the type rating. I stayed and worked hard for several years and made sure the company got the best return on their investment in me. The thing is, it has to start with YOU investing in yourself, to make yourself competitive. It says something about you when an employer sees that you are motivated enough to invest in your own future.

Back when I was a 1500 hour pilot, the best job you could get was flying a Cessna 402 to the Grand Canyon doing air tours. With an ATP, 2500 hours (of which 1000 hours were as ME PIC), I was lucky if I could get a small commuter to even look at me, and I would have been deliriously happy if I could have nailed down a job flying as copilot on a Beech 99 or a Bandit (EMB-110). I didn't manage to land a commuter job until I had over 3500 hours with lots of instrument and multi-engine PIC time (that was in 1986). I got paid the enormous sum of $900/month for the first year I flew for that major Delta regional. 2nd year pay was $1200/month, and by that time I was flying a 35 passenger turboprop operated under Part 121, and I still qualified for food stamps. Going into my third year, ALPA decided the pilots should go on strike. The only problem was that while you're on strike, you aren't working. I couldn't afford it so I started looking for a job right away. I eventually got lucky and managed to land a job flying right seat in a Lear 35 at the end of 1988. I've been a Corporate Pilot ever since.

So pardon me if I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone that thinks they shouldn't have to pay for a type rating in order to get a job that requires you to have one. You can thank all the jerks ahead of you who have been hired, given a type rating, and then run off to some other cushier job and left the employer hanging. That has happened so many times, to everyone from small one-airplane operators like us, to big corporations and airlines. We aren't asking you to pay for your type rating. What we are offering is a contract job for a type rated 604 pilot, on a 2 to 1 work - time off rotation based in the UK. No frills, no benefits and the pay is only $5,000 USD per month for the first year. We know the pay is low, so we realize we are most likely only going to get interest from lower time, less experienced pilots, and most likely none of them will have the type, or will have experience only in smaller aircraft. We understand that. If someone posts a job with specific requirements that you don't meet, and are not willing to meet, then ignore it and move on.

There's lots of people that are already lining up at the door. My problem is not in finding someone willing to take the job. My problem is finding someone willing to take the job that actually has some decent flying skills, as well as people management skills and a good attitude and work ethic, to fit in with us. A local European pilot would be ideal from a purely geographical standpoint, if they have the skills and can prove it. However, in trying to find just the right person, I'm putting the job out there on forums like this to try to get the widest possible range of candidates to choose from. I've shared far more information here about the job than most employers would, in an effort to answer as many questions as possible in advance. Most of the local European candidates are already familiar with all of this. Any North American or South American pilot who goes for it and manages to land this job, will come away from this job with strong international flying experience and heavy corporate jet time, including Atlantic crossings (we do one or two every other month or so). What's that worth to you? For a young, single, low time pilot looking at the daunting challenge of trying to get that first jet job, this IS a rare opportunity.
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Thank you. While a lot of us here in the states view this as "unrealistic" or "unethical," I am completely on board with what you've said here- you've been very honest and very up front- and I also understand that this type of arrangement is very common outside the US.

We can also both agree 100% that the reason that you see training contracts and pay for your own type deals is because someone before you or me left a bad taste in the mouth of the guy writing the checks by taking said type and running off a month later to a place where the grass seemed greener.
If you can find the right combination of pilot quality and someone who's willing to sign up for this deal, this could be a great start to someone's career.
 
Jetsteff Aviation said:
I wasn't going to respond to this, but I feel I need to address this issue. Every time I hear similar comments, it seems to come from pilots with similar backgrounds and experience and a very narrow point of view. Allow me to share my view on this subject, which is colored by my personal experience during a career that spans 36 years, with 28 of those years in the cockpit, mostly as a corporate pilot.

So... "Pay for training?" No, not as a condition of employment. But you can't call it that if an employer is advertising a position for someone who is already qualified. If you want the job and you need to get a type rating or some other certification in order to get hired, that's called investing in your career - no different, for example, than going to school or taking specific courses and paying the cost of getting certified as an RN in order to get a good job in a hospital. Let me ask you this: Do you have a degree? If so, who paid for it? Who paid for your Private, your Multi, your Instrument and any other basic ratings you have? How is investing in a type rating any different than investing in any other part of your education and qualifications, especially if it makes you more competitive than the next guy?

I left home when I was 18. I paid for my own college education, all my certificates and ratings, including my first two types - the B737 (to try to get a job with Southwest many years ago) and the Challenger 600. Amazing how much easier it was for me to get a job with a good company once I had that Challenger type under my belt! And after a few years flying the Challenger for a company that sent me over to Europe for a couple years, it was a lot easier for me to get a job with the next company I went to work for, and they paid for my type rating in the G-II and G-III. They stated that they were willing to do that based on the fact that I had the other two types and had good international experience. Several years later, I went to work for another company that paid for my G-IV type, again because of my previous experience and type ratings. The same happened again with having my 604 type paid for. In each case, I didn't run off after getting the type rating. I stayed and worked hard for several years and made sure the company got the best return on their investment in me. The thing is, it has to start with YOU investing in yourself, to make yourself competitive. It says something about you when an employer sees that you are motivated enough to invest in your own future.

Back when I was a 1500 hour pilot, the best job you could get was flying a Cessna 402 to the Grand Canyon doing air tours. With an ATP, 2500 hours (of which 1000 hours were as ME PIC), I was lucky if I could get a small commuter to even look at me, and I would have been deliriously happy if I could have nailed down a job flying as copilot on a Beech 99 or a Bandit (EMB-110). I didn't manage to land a commuter job until I had over 3500 hours with lots of instrument and multi-engine PIC time (that was in 1986). I got paid the enormous sum of $900/month for the first year I flew for that major Delta regional. 2nd year pay was $1200/month, and by that time I was flying a 35 passenger turboprop operated under Part 121, and I still qualified for food stamps. Going into my third year, ALPA decided the pilots should go on strike. The only problem was that while you're on strike, you aren't working. I couldn't afford it so I started looking for a job right away. I eventually got lucky and managed to land a job flying right seat in a Lear 35 at the end of 1988. I've been a Corporate Pilot ever since.

So pardon me if I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone that thinks they shouldn't have to pay for a type rating in order to get a job that requires you to have one. You can thank all the jerks ahead of you who have been hired, given a type rating, and then run off to some other cushier job and left the employer hanging. That has happened so many times, to everyone from small one-airplane operators like us, to big corporations and airlines. We aren't asking you to pay for your type rating. What we are offering is a contract job for a type rated 604 pilot, on a 2 to 1 work - time off rotation based in the UK. No frills, no benefits and the pay is only $5,000 USD per month for the first year. We know the pay is low, so we realize we are most likely only going to get interest from lower time, less experienced pilots, and most likely none of them will have the type, or will have experience only in smaller aircraft. We understand that. If someone posts a job with specific requirements that you don't meet, and are not willing to meet, then ignore it and move on.

There's lots of people that are already lining up at the door. My problem is not in finding someone willing to take the job. My problem is finding someone willing to take the job that actually has some decent flying skills, as well as people management skills and a good attitude and work ethic, to fit in with us. A local European pilot would be ideal from a purely geographical standpoint, if they have the skills and can prove it. However, in trying to find just the right person, I'm putting the job out there on forums like this to try to get the widest possible range of candidates to choose from. I've shared far more information here about the job than most employers would, in an effort to answer as many questions as possible in advance. Most of the local European candidates are already familiar with all of this. Any North American or South American pilot who goes for it and manages to land this job, will come away from this job with strong international flying experience and heavy corporate jet time, including Atlantic crossings (we do one or two every other month or so). What's that worth to you? For a young, single, low time pilot looking at the daunting challenge of trying to get that first jet job, this IS a rare opportunity.
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I realize how my comment came off, and it warranted your response. In an effort to not argue with you on a job posting I will not respond to the many things I disagree with. Good luck finding the type of candidate you want for the job.
 
Jetsteff Aviation said:
I wasn't going to respond to this, but I feel I need to address this issue. Every time I hear similar comments, it seems to come from pilots with similar backgrounds and experience and a very narrow point of view. Allow me to share my view on this subject, which is colored by my personal experience during a career that spans 36 years, with 28 of those years in the cockpit, mostly as a corporate pilot.

So... "Pay for training?" No, not as a condition of employment. But you can't call it that if an employer is advertising a position for someone who is already qualified. If you want the job and you need to get a type rating or some other certification in order to get hired, that's called investing in your career - no different, for example, than going to school or taking specific courses and paying the cost of getting certified as an RN in order to get a good job in a hospital. Let me ask you this: Do you have a degree? If so, who paid for it? Who paid for your Private, your Multi, your Instrument and any other basic ratings you have? How is investing in a type rating any different than investing in any other part of your education and qualifications, especially if it makes you more competitive than the next guy?

I left home when I was 18. I paid for my own college education, all my certificates and ratings, including my first two types - the B737 (to try to get a job with Southwest many years ago) and the Challenger 600. Amazing how much easier it was for me to get a job with a good company once I had that Challenger type under my belt! And after a few years flying the Challenger for a company that sent me over to Europe for a couple years, it was a lot easier for me to get a job with the next company I went to work for, and they paid for my type rating in the G-II and G-III. They stated that they were willing to do that based on the fact that I had the other two types and had good international experience. Several years later, I went to work for another company that paid for my G-IV type, again because of my previous experience and type ratings. The same happened again with having my 604 type paid for. In each case, I didn't run off after getting the type rating. I stayed and worked hard for several years and made sure the company got the best return on their investment in me. The thing is, it has to start with YOU investing in yourself, to make yourself competitive. It says something about you when an employer sees that you are motivated enough to invest in your own future.

Back when I was a 1500 hour pilot, the best job you could get was flying a Cessna 402 to the Grand Canyon doing air tours. With an ATP, 2500 hours (of which 1000 hours were as ME PIC), I was lucky if I could get a small commuter to even look at me, and I would have been deliriously happy if I could have nailed down a job flying as copilot on a Beech 99 or a Bandit (EMB-110). I didn't manage to land a commuter job until I had over 3500 hours with lots of instrument and multi-engine PIC time (that was in 1986). I got paid the enormous sum of $900/month for the first year I flew for that major Delta regional. 2nd year pay was $1200/month, and by that time I was flying a 35 passenger turboprop operated under Part 121, and I still qualified for food stamps. Going into my third year, ALPA decided the pilots should go on strike. The only problem was that while you're on strike, you aren't working. I couldn't afford it so I started looking for a job right away. I eventually got lucky and managed to land a job flying right seat in a Lear 35 at the end of 1988. I've been a Corporate Pilot ever since.

So pardon me if I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone that thinks they shouldn't have to pay for a type rating in order to get a job that requires you to have one. You can thank all the jerks ahead of you who have been hired, given a type rating, and then run off to some other cushier job and left the employer hanging. That has happened so many times, to everyone from small one-airplane operators like us, to big corporations and airlines. We aren't asking you to pay for your type rating. What we are offering is a contract job for a type rated 604 pilot, on a 2 to 1 work - time off rotation based in the UK. No frills, no benefits and the pay is only $5,000 USD per month for the first year. We know the pay is low, so we realize we are most likely only going to get interest from lower time, less experienced pilots, and most likely none of them will have the type, or will have experience only in smaller aircraft. We understand that. If someone posts a job with specific requirements that you don't meet, and are not willing to meet, then ignore it and move on.

There's lots of people that are already lining up at the door. My problem is not in finding someone willing to take the job. My problem is finding someone willing to take the job that actually has some decent flying skills, as well as people management skills and a good attitude and work ethic, to fit in with us. A local European pilot would be ideal from a purely geographical standpoint, if they have the skills and can prove it. However, in trying to find just the right person, I'm putting the job out there on forums like this to try to get the widest possible range of candidates to choose from. I've shared far more information here about the job than most employers would, in an effort to answer as many questions as possible in advance. Most of the local European candidates are already familiar with all of this. Any North American or South American pilot who goes for it and manages to land this job, will come away from this job with strong international flying experience and heavy corporate jet time, including Atlantic crossings (we do one or two every other month or so). What's that worth to you? For a young, single, low time pilot looking at the daunting challenge of trying to get that first jet job, this IS a rare opportunity.
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Actually the pay you advertise is on par with if not quite a bit more than some places are offering in South Florida for the same equipment.
 
KLB said:
Actually the pay you advertise is on par with if not quite a bit more than some places are offering in South Florida for the same equipment.
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This is the reason S FL has the reputation it does.

I'm not knocking the job posting in any way, shape or form. I will give you perspective though, for the international market... This is the same pay my former company offered in Kiev for a Lear 60 FO position.

@Jetsteff Aviation, as SteveC said, kudos for the honesty and I wish you the best of luck in the search. It can be a good opportunity for the right person.

Everybody, when looking at these overseas jobs needs to keep an open mind. I'm not saying to go out and buy a type rating, but on the other hand, what sets you apart from the rest of the pilots? Canada and Mexico flying to the rest of the world is basically domestic flying.

Trust me, this flying and the conditions you sometimes find yourself in, can be challenging. Most Americans can't even find Crimea on a map... that used to be at least a once a rotation flight to Simferopol when I was based in Kiev. That airport is now controlled by the country I currently work in. I will not comment any on that situation, but I say this to, hopefully, not sound like an ass about things, but to show that you never know what you will experience when working overseas, no matter where you go.

Anyways, best of luck to all.
 
KLB said:
Actually the pay you advertise is on par with if not quite a bit more than some places are offering in South Florida for the same equipment.
Click to expand...


I wanted to expound a bit on my pay comparison. I mentioned it to show that some of those "buy the type to get the job" or get payed extremely low wages the first year exist in large numbers over here. I've been offered that a bunch. A buddy of mine just got a "take it or leave it" 47 grand offer with no bennies to fly a GIII doing charters.

Honestly the OP'S posting is lot better than some jobs state side.

Some low timer will take this job, build a few hundred hours time in type, and be captain in it by 3000hrs total time somewhere else.
 
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