CFR/ARFF

From someone working in the sand box, thank you for what you do. It's not always a fire, but a bad day at work at best. The safety that you bring to a site is immensely appreciated. We have SOP's to manage most incidents, but if it gets bad, it gets bad quickly. Your training and expertise turns something that is going to maim someone into something that makes a good story later.

Thank You.
 
One Stryker replaced two -19s and the TAU?

I like the TAUs, good useful trucks and the kind I use nowdays for the Index A or possibly B contract level jobs we might get. The big Stryker was fun to drive and qualify on, as well as the other large ARFF rigs I used to crew back in the day, but I most likely won't be using those ever again on any kind of regular basis.

Correct. The Fish and Wildlife service just saw old antiquated pieces of equipment they did not want to maintain with the shiny new Striker sitting there. ACIP funding purchased the Striker, the P-19s lived on in reserve for a little while, one was used for parts for the other, then eventually both went to the island's scrap yard last I was told. Kind of sad actually. Having the two -19s and the Striker ready to go given an emergency would have given us 3500 gallons of water. However now it is down to just the Striker. Nice as it is, but runs out of water fast and the island's ability to replenish the tank takes forever.
 
Hey Mike D,

Got a question for you guys. I am a firefighter/paramedic at a fire station that is co-located at a non-towered airport with a decent amount of business and general aviation. We're also the primary HAZMAT station for my county, which is one of the largest counties in Virginia. I recently went through Hazmat Technician school and it's looking like I'll have an opportunity to go through ARFF school at some point in the near future.

My question is about replacing a P-19. I'm going to be a part of a workgroup soon to build the specs for replacing the P-19 and I was wondering what your opinions were about the different options available. Obviously it's going to depend on what it's being utilized for, but it would be helpful to know what questions to ask. It's going to be used for both airport emergencies and for it's pump and roll capabilities and AFFF foam in limited off-airport settings. I'm in the early stages of learning about ARFF, but was put on the group partially because of having an aviation background (CMEL, CFI-A). I've followed your posts with interest through the years, and am trying to find a way to combine a love of aviation and fire and EMS as well. Anything you can do to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Dave
 
Hey Mike D,

Got a question for you guys. I am a firefighter/paramedic at a fire station that is co-located at a non-towered airport with a decent amount of business and general aviation. We're also the primary HAZMAT station for my county, which is one of the largest counties in Virginia. I recently went through Hazmat Technician school and it's looking like I'll have an opportunity to go through ARFF school at some point in the near future.

My question is about replacing a P-19. I'm going to be a part of a workgroup soon to build the specs for replacing the P-19 and I was wondering what your opinions were about the different options available. Obviously it's going to depend on what it's being utilized for, but it would be helpful to know what questions to ask. It's going to be used for both airport emergencies and for it's pump and roll capabilities and AFFF foam in limited off-airport settings. I'm in the early stages of learning about ARFF, but was put on the group partially because of having an aviation background (CMEL, CFI-A). I've followed your posts with interest through the years, and am trying to find a way to combine a love of aviation and fire and EMS as well. Anything you can do to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Dave

I'll PM you some thoughts on the subject today. See if any ideas can help. There are good existing vehicles out there than can replace a P-19, eve though many -19s have alot of life still in them.
 
@MikeD

How do you maintain currency in your variety of career fields? I worked in CFR/ARFF for about six years and some change. Four in the Marines and 2 + at Midway as a contractor. Then I was promoted and drove a desk. I think that is when the flying bug bite me. I left my position at Midway to go to ATP...then it went all down hill from there.

Wearing the tator suit and charging into a burning situation with an attack line is something I wouldn't mind experiencing again someday.
 
@MikeD

How do you maintain currency in your variety of career fields? I worked in CFR/ARFF for about six years and some change. Four in the Marines and 2 + at Midway as a contractor. Then I was promoted and drove a desk. I think that is when the flying bug bite me. I left my position at Midway to go to ATP...then it went all down hill from there.

Wearing the tator suit and charging into a burning situation with an attack line is something I wouldn't mind experiencing again someday.

It's not easy believe me. Between three jobs: CBP agent/pilot/EMT as primary job, USAFR HH-60 rescue helo pilot/ flight safety officer as a part-time reservist, and having a contract fire/rescue company with my partner and a small crew of people and vehicles covering racetracks, light structural, wildland, and ARFF contracts; it's not easy at all. Sometimes there's not enough time to balance it all seemingly. Still, I enjoy it more than when I was active duty AF, even though AF allowed for me to move on to the jobs I do now and working as an accident investigator there and also in the reserves is cool, but also earned me a divorce from being gone all the time and having no control over my life. Fire is what I started in long ago, so it's the funnest of the three still. Like many people I know, I'm successful professionally, but not so much so in the personal life.

If you ever happen to make it out this way, I could probably get you some burn house time and give you some time back in the saddle again.
 
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MikeD,

Wanted to touch base again after several meetings regarding a new ARFF vehicle and get your opinion on a couple of things. Although our airport is not indexed at this point, the direction we've been given is to evaluate at least Class III ARFF vehicles in case they do pursue indexing at some point in the future. In replacing the P-19, it seems like the current Class III vehicles may be a step down (particularly with regards to a 500 gallon tank instead of the 1000 and having a 250 gpm bumper turret only). Also, the feedback we've received on the Class III has been fairly underwhelming from talking to airports that currently have them. We've looked mostly at the Rosenbauer Airwolf and KME Force. We have had some preliminary conversations about looking at a Class IV instead, but I don't know if that will be a possibility due to budgetary constraints...we'll have to see. The vehicle is going to be used for ARFF as well as possibly industrial or HAZMAT applications on occasion, so better handling on roadways would be an upgrade over what the P-19 currently offers. We've also discussed using AR-AFFF instead of AFFF because of the multi-use role. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Thanks Again,
Bigs
 
That's some ridiculously nice equipment to sit out in the middle of the Pacific like that!

The Striker is sitting in an enclosed building now. I am pleasantly surprised to hear from a buddy out there that one of the P-19s has been restored to operating condition.
 
MikeD,

Wanted to touch base again after several meetings regarding a new ARFF vehicle and get your opinion on a couple of things. Although our airport is not indexed at this point, the direction we've been given is to evaluate at least Class III ARFF vehicles in case they do pursue indexing at some point in the future. In replacing the P-19, it seems like the current Class III vehicles may be a step down (particularly with regards to a 500 gallon tank instead of the 1000 and having a 250 gpm bumper turret only). Also, the feedback we've received on the Class III has been fairly underwhelming from talking to airports that currently have them. We've looked mostly at the Rosenbauer Airwolf and KME Force. We have had some preliminary conversations about looking at a Class IV instead, but I don't know if that will be a possibility due to budgetary constraints...we'll have to see. The vehicle is going to be used for ARFF as well as possibly industrial or HAZMAT applications on occasion, so better handling on roadways would be an upgrade over what the P-19 currently offers. We've also discussed using AR-AFFF instead of AFFF because of the multi-use role. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Thanks Again,
Bigs

My humble opinions only below.

One of the things to consider when talking straight gallonage is that firefighting technologies have become more efficient, to where similar fires can be fought with less water/foam. Things like UHP (Ultra High Pressure) turrets, uses of Compresse Air Foam (CAFS) and the like, make being able to have less water still viable for fire suppression. The Rosenbauer and KME vehicles you mention above are good vehicles, as are the E-One Titan Force and the Oshkosh Stryker 1500, both 1500 gallon vehicles for Class IV.

What size air carrier aircraft are you anticipating getting there, or is this primarily for General Aviation? If it's only for General Aviation, a Class 2 unit wouldn't be bad, as they're still multirole crash/structural like others, but more compact and mobile. Unless you have some medium sized or larger air carrier aircraft as your customer, such as an E-170 or CRJ-900, a Class IV is great but is alot of $$$ for anything less than those as your customer, whereas a good Class III would suffice. With one of those aforementioned aircraft or larger, a Class IV would be the appropriate one.

In terms of which foam to use, synthetic or protein, it all depends on what you are expecting to encounter and as anything else, your budget. AFFF works great for the vast majority of Class B firefighting applications and is an industry standard for airport ops. AR-AFFF is better capability if you need the alcohol resistance factor for forming vapor barrier protection against alcohol-based fuels, but that's not required in standard Class B suppression applications. A nice-to-have vs a need-to-have, more useful in fuel spills with ignition potential (before or after fire), rather than actual fire knockdown. AR in both AFFF as well as FFFP (protein) foam is a little more expensive to purchase, so again, it's nice, but in a normal airport application, not specifically required. On our company trucks (Class I/II) we run both regular AFFF, as well as AR-FFFP, simply because we were able to find some bulk FFFP for sale. We use the AFFF primary for firefighting because its fast flow, quick knockdown (if the fire isn't 3-dimensional), and generally there's not a reignition problem. The FFFP is there for vapor barrier creation and maintenance due to its lower flow and much thicker viscosity. So to answer your question, regular AFFF is fine for most applications, and especially if cost is a factor.
 
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