CFI's giving up on a pilot
- Thread starter Beech90
- Start date
jrh
Well-Known Member
I've had a few former clients get into incidents and the feds have never so much as even talked to me.
One pilot did his private pilot training with me, did his tailwheel endorsement with his father (also a CFI), then had a loss of directional control incident while landing a Citabria in gusty crosswinds.
Another client did his instrument training with me, then a year later received 30 hours of "mentor pilot/instructional" time from me in a Meridian after we went through Meridian training at an insurance-approved course together. A year after that, he had a loss of directional control incident while landing on a snow covered runway during a winter storm.
I gave jump pilot training/aircraft checkout to a low time commercial pilot at a dropzone. Technically I played an advisory role and did not log the training as instruction given, as the plane did not have dual controls. A few weeks later, the pilot ran out of gas while descending in the traffic pattern and landed in a corn field short of the runway. No injuries and only very minor damage to the plane.
An instrument-rated pilot & ASEL owner came to us for a rental checkout while his plane was down for annual, and he was pretty oblivious about airspace and communications. His typical flight to KDAL meant flying VFR NORDO before diving under the Class B overhangs, getting as close to Love as he could before announing "N____ requesting landing instructions." We approved him for VFR-only rental privileges which really p***ed him off, and he never rented from us which was kind-of the point.
I don't know why he hasn't been violated. He's still out there, sharing the air with the rest of us.
I don't know why he hasn't been violated. He's still out there, sharing the air with the rest of us.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
Runway incursions, running out of fuel and gear up landings? Those in clusters are signs of poor judgement, my friend. Your student does not need remedial training. They need to adjust their attitude. You would be doing them and the rest of the world a favor by not signing them off. Whether or not you have any other interaction with them is a matter of preference. Just don't depend on dual giving to solve their problems.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
If CFIs have a problem with having their signature in an other pilots logbook, they should be seeking another line of employment.
Are you too good to try to do your job and educate a pilot? Providing proficiency/remedial training is NOT the same as endorsing a student for a checkride or giving a FR or IPC. The FAA is not going to take enforcement action against you for providing purposeful, quality instruction with the goal of possibly improving another pilot's airmanship. Just make sure you CYA, and the log entry shows that. Granted, this guy sounded like a basket case. But ultimately he drove the nail into the coffin of his own flying career with his attitude.
I've worked with pilots on half a dozen 709 rides. The accidents/incidents ranged from a ground loop to running out of gas and killing his wife in the crash. Just 2 actually went on to take take their ride with the FAA. The one determining factor in their success in their remedial training was their attitude, not their flying skill.
Are you too good to try to do your job and educate a pilot? Providing proficiency/remedial training is NOT the same as endorsing a student for a checkride or giving a FR or IPC. The FAA is not going to take enforcement action against you for providing purposeful, quality instruction with the goal of possibly improving another pilot's airmanship. Just make sure you CYA, and the log entry shows that. Granted, this guy sounded like a basket case. But ultimately he drove the nail into the coffin of his own flying career with his attitude.
I've worked with pilots on half a dozen 709 rides. The accidents/incidents ranged from a ground loop to running out of gas and killing his wife in the crash. Just 2 actually went on to take take their ride with the FAA. The one determining factor in their success in their remedial training was their attitude, not their flying skill.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
How is any of that reason for a violation?
Cloud Surfer
All Roads lead to Trantor
This thread should be stickied because of the great information herein!
It sounds like whoever taught this guy hadn't drilled him enough about aeronautical decision making and risk management. Sadly I have met more than one CFI who didn't know much about the Fundamentals of Instructing like the Law of Primacy.
Or maybe he was taught well initially, but after he earned his certificate(s) he became so complacent over time (10,000 hours of GA flying? wow!) that his sense of invulnerability grew out of control. Well, that sucks either way, but if the guy wasn't willing to spend the time rectifying his bad habits, then he shouldn't fly at all.
It sounds like whoever taught this guy hadn't drilled him enough about aeronautical decision making and risk management. Sadly I have met more than one CFI who didn't know much about the Fundamentals of Instructing like the Law of Primacy.
Or maybe he was taught well initially, but after he earned his certificate(s) he became so complacent over time (10,000 hours of GA flying? wow!) that his sense of invulnerability grew out of control. Well, that sucks either way, but if the guy wasn't willing to spend the time rectifying his bad habits, then he shouldn't fly at all.
A150K
Well-Known Member
Interesting username you have there.This thread should be stickied because of the great information herein!
It sounds like whoever taught this guy hadn't drilled him enough about aeronautical decision making and risk management. Sadly I have met more than one CFI who didn't know much about the Fundamentals of Instructing like the Law of Primacy.
Or maybe he was taught well initially, but after he earned his certificate(s) he became so complacent over time (10,000 hours of GA flying? wow!) that his sense of invulnerability grew out of control. Well, that sucks either way, but if the guy wasn't willing to spend the time rectifying his bad habits, then he shouldn't fly at all.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
No, only one of those is a judgment issue (running out of fuel certainly smacks of poor decisionmaking).
The other two are procedural issues.
Applause!
Wait, wait, I remember something from FOI about the "affective" domain...yeah, makes sense. I also don't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that some authority on airmanship somewhere said that attitude is the most effective predictor of safety.
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
Why waste your time with somebody who is a known hazard? If you don't think the guy should be flying, why would you endanger lives by legally empowering him?
I recently turned away a student. This person had no interest in learning how to fly, only about passing the checkride. That sort of attitude is dangerous, and I'm not going to encourage that sort of thinking. If all the student can manage to care about is the bare minimums, I'm happy to move on to somebody else.
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
I've had something similar happen to me on a flight review. People need to understand that just because you're paying me, doesn't mean I'm going to sign the endorsement.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
First off, in this case, a CFI doesn't have the authority to "legally empower" anybody to do anything. That's on the FAA, the CFI is just there to providing the training.
Second, did you ever think to ask WHY the person only seemed to be interested in the bare minimums and only passing the checkride?
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Where I learned to fly, was a small two plane operation.
We had a 50 something year old show up at one point, big guy, years of working on the rigs, and he owned his own sailboat, sailed across the atlantic several times, so his personal level of competency seemed to be there.
After 52 hours of dual instructing he had not gone solo yet, his skills were beyond poor ( I was good friends with my instructor at the time) and what ended it, was during a spiral dive practice, the instructor called for him to recover and he froze, the instructor was a small guy, and even after screaming at him to recover he didn't, he attempted to wrestle the controls, but ended up having to jab him in the arm with a pen.
After this he went to another flight school in another part of the country, somehow managed to do well enough in training to get a solo ride, and then proceeded to write the airplane off on his first take-off.
We had a 50 something year old show up at one point, big guy, years of working on the rigs, and he owned his own sailboat, sailed across the atlantic several times, so his personal level of competency seemed to be there.
After 52 hours of dual instructing he had not gone solo yet, his skills were beyond poor ( I was good friends with my instructor at the time) and what ended it, was during a spiral dive practice, the instructor called for him to recover and he froze, the instructor was a small guy, and even after screaming at him to recover he didn't, he attempted to wrestle the controls, but ended up having to jab him in the arm with a pen.
After this he went to another flight school in another part of the country, somehow managed to do well enough in training to get a solo ride, and then proceeded to write the airplane off on his first take-off.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
No, only one of those is a judgment issue (running out of fuel certainly smacks of poor decisionmaking).
The other two are procedural issues.
Applause!
Wait, wait, I remember something from FOI about the "affective" domain...yeah, makes sense. I also don't remember where, but I'm pretty sure that some authority on airmanship somewhere said that attitude is the most effective predictor of safety.
You could read my sentence a little more carefully
Forgetting to put a gear down, in itself, is forgetting, but let's not FORGET to take a step back and see the big picture.