CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something wrong

C

ClearedToTakeoff

Well-Known Member
Just wondering if CFII's thought it was unscrupulous to take one of their students along as their safety pilot while retaining currency? Granted the student didn't pay anything, but is that breaking any professional boundary? I figured I had one instrument student who I just started that just showed the signs of prodigy, so I invited him along as safety pilot (He's legal for it). We've only done BAI stuff currently, so I figured showing him the true IFR environment with tower enroute and what not was a great experience for him, but wondering if it's weird to take a student on such a flight? I don't think so, but something tells me that's a boundary not to be crossed.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

i think it would be a little awkward personally. dont you have any CFI friends? saying that, when i was instructing full time, i would fly an approach every now and then with a student. Of course, to them it was a "demo"
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I've done it to allow my students to get a bigger picture. I don't see anything "professionally" wrong with it as they are doing me a favor.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I can't even imagine what could conceivably be wrong with having an instrument student see how his CFI handles an IFR flight and so much that is right about it.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I have actually made a point of doing just that. It helps greatly to sit on the other side and observe, gives valuable perspective.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

MidlifeFlyer said:
I can't even imagine what could conceivably be wrong with having an instrument student see how his CFI handles an IFR flight and so much that is right about it.
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Ditto.

I had a guy that was considering doing his instrument come ride along when I needed to do a few approaches and a hold. He was my safety pilot. After the flight, he booked my schedule for his instrument rating. It was kind of like a discovery flight.

-mini
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I don't see anything wrong with it at all, provided he's not footing the bill for it and is legal to serve as a safety pilot while you exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. Too many instrument students experience little more than the canned training environment when they get their ticket and aren't necessarily well-prepared for the "real world" of IFR flight. Win-win for both of you, IMO.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

Somewhere near the end of my instrument training, an instructor asked me along on a flight he was PIC in IMC. For me, it helped me to see the big picture of what IFR flying was all about. Instead of being the student, and focusing on small parts of a flight, I sat back and got the big picture of things. How certain parts interact, how certain procedures work, not just at the same airports that students always fly to, but new airports as well. It was a real eye opener, and as a student, it really helped me to determine relationships and see new ones! I will always be grateful for that flight. To me, it was "real world" flying.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I definately don't think there is anything wrong with it. As the Instructor, you better fly decently though.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

I do it all the time.

However, I don't take a student to use him as a safety pilot, but my student acts as a safety pilot during the course of the lesson.

I found early on that when I taught guys instruments, and we finally got to shooting approaches, instead of explaining to them what to do and then in the aircraft go through this............

Alright, are we going to get ATIS?

What should our aircraft configuration be?

Going a bit fast, aren't we?

Did we finish our checklists?

He comes our IAF

There goes our IAF!

What are you going to do next?

Are you going to descend?

ARE YOU GOING TO DESCEND??!?!?

I think we're still a bit fast, don't you?

What altitude should we be holding?

What's our MDA?

Are you sure your OBS is set correctly?

Really, take another look at the OBS!

Alright, MDA, what do we do next?

Hold your altitude!

Did you start you time at the MDA?

Of course not!!! What are you going to do next?

MAP, what are you going to do.

MAP, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?






I do this first.....

I have the controls, you look out for traffic.

Watch this....


I find they do a much better jobs when they have seen it done in the aircraft correctly, rather then just having what they are doing wrong explained to them.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

X-Forces said:
I do it all the time.

However, I don't take a student to use him as a safety pilot, but my student acts as a safety pilot during the course of the lesson.
Click to expand...
Very interesting way of handling it. I think I like it a lot.

-mini
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

X-Forces said:
Alright, are we going to get ATIS?

What should our aircraft configuration be?

Going a bit fast, aren't we?

Did we finish our checklists?

He comes our IAF

There goes our IAF!

What are you going to do next?

Are you going to descend?

ARE YOU GOING TO DESCEND??!?!?

I think we're still a bit fast, don't you?

What altitude should we be holding?

What's our MDA?

Are you sure your OBS is set correctly?

Really, take another look at the OBS!

Alright, MDA, what do we do next?

Hold your altitude!

Did you start you time at the MDA?

Of course not!!! What are you going to do next?

MAP, what are you going to do.

MAP, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
Click to expand...

:D:D:D

You just gave me flashbacks. Unfortunately, they were not only to when I was a single engine CFII, but also to when I was an instructor in a twin turboprop at a Part 135 company training people who supposedly already had their instrument rating and a good chunk of experience. :cwm27::o


And as for the original question, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. I agree with everyone else.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

ClearedToTakeoff said:
Just wondering if CFII's thought it was unscrupulous to take one of their students along as their safety pilot while retaining currency? Granted the student didn't pay anything, but is that breaking any professional boundary? I figured I had one instrument student who I just started that just showed the signs of prodigy, so I invited him along as safety pilot (He's legal for it). We've only done BAI stuff currently, so I figured showing him the true IFR environment with tower enroute and what not was a great experience for him, but wondering if it's weird to take a student on such a flight? I don't think so, but something tells me that's a boundary not to be crossed.
Click to expand...

If it's legal, there's no problem.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

ClearedToTakeoff said:
Just wondering if CFII's thought it was unscrupulous to take one of their students along as their safety pilot while retaining currency? Granted the student didn't pay anything, but is that breaking any professional boundary? I figured I had one instrument student who I just started that just showed the signs of prodigy, so I invited him along as safety pilot (He's legal for it). We've only done BAI stuff currently, so I figured showing him the true IFR environment with tower enroute and what not was a great experience for him, but wondering if it's weird to take a student on such a flight? I don't think so, but something tells me that's a boundary not to be crossed.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you did him a favor, if he wants TT. Why not?
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

As long as he isn't paying for you to be there, I don't see a problem.
 
Re: CFII taking a student along as safety pilot, something w

X-Forces said:
I do it all the time.

However, I don't take a student to use him as a safety pilot, but my student acts as a safety pilot during the course of the lesson.

I do this first.....

I have the controls, you look out for traffic.

Watch this....


I find they do a much better jobs when they have seen it done in the aircraft correctly, rather then just having what they are doing wrong explained to them.
Click to expand...

"Telling/Doing method"

Recap in case anyone has forgotten this: (AIH Chapter 9)

Teacher does while talking through it
Teacher does while student talks them through it
Student does while talking through it
Student does again while the instructor evaluates

Sounds like you have the beginning workings of this, might even help to add in stage 2 and have them walk you through one. Stage 3 and 4, they just seem silly to me, kind of the same thing I guess you could say. I agree, this sounds like a great way to handle approach ops, I haven't gotten there yet and hadn't thought to do this, you likely just saved me many hours of frustration so thanks.

As for the OP, I agree with others here, nothing wrong with it. However, it might be more effective later on versus early in his/her training, but that is certainly debatable.
 
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