CFII Question.
- Thread starter JustinA
- Start date
SuperCubRick
Well-Known Member
Since you've already taken the FOI for your initial CFI, I believe all you need to do is take the II written and go for a II checkride. I don't think there's a minimum number of dual instruction hours required to get the II.
I know a few guys at my flight school have earned their CFII before their CFI, and since only the initial instructor ride has to be with an FAA guy, it's best to get the II first, as it is supposedly an easier checkride.
I could be wrong?
I know a few guys at my flight school have earned their CFII before their CFI, and since only the initial instructor ride has to be with an FAA guy, it's best to get the II first, as it is supposedly an easier checkride.
I could be wrong?
tgrayson
New Member
I presume by "dual hours" you mean instruction that you receive in preparation for your -II. There is no minimum, but the FAA in the past said it must be greater than 0, which is supported by 14 CFR 61.187. Since it says "flight training", some must be in an actual airplane.
tgrayson
New Member
61.1 defines "flight training" as occurring in an airplane, so no, an FTD would not be sufficient. Surely you can spend .1 in an actual airplane?
nosehair
Well-Known Member
Not funny. Not even a little bit.
You will notice that there is no "Aeronautical Experience" FAR paragraph under Subpart H for Flight Instructors. There is no specific flight or ground time required, except for the part under 61.187 Flight Proficiency:
"...must receive and log ground and flight training...on the areas of operation listed in this section."
The authorized instructor who endorses you is certifying you are proficient in all those areas listed. How is that possible in .1, or even 1 hour?
Or even 5...?? (Sheesh!) "Trying to get my CFI with the least minimum littlest bit of training."
Where does that come from?
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
Nosehair,
it's just a checkride, if done with a DPE in bed with the local school thats realistically all it cooks down to. I was quoted 15-20 hours of flight and 40 hours of ground with my school for the CFI. They flat out refuse to take on a CFI-I initial because they think it is only done to avoid spending money (on complex) whereas the CFI-I is the single most dangerous thing to teach. But what is in the family, stays in the family... Now imagine you get your CFI in a flightschool in Florida where the FSDO has no time for initials, and you have the most crooked system in the world. No free lunch, no quick passes...
Got a reference for that stat, because I distinctly remember my life being in more precarious situations in twins than in singles doing instrument work.
-mini
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
No mini, I just believe that teaching instrument flight should be reserved to people who have gained instructional proficiency and have had solid exposure to actual instrument conditions. I do not think that either one is more dangerous than the other. You may believe that teaching good habits and sound ADM is possible @ 250 hours, I don't. Yet, the certificate seems to enjoy the reputation of being "easier" to obtain, besides being a whole lot cheaper. No stats involved.
ChristheCFII
Well-Known Member
The II can indeed be had with very little training and an easy check ride, but do you really want to teach your first instrument student and yourself at the same time? What I'm saying is, you owe it to your customers to get trained thoroughly by a competent, high-time CFII so that you're truly prepared to train safe and competent instrument pilots.
We have had so-called CFIIs come to our school and screw up a bunch of students because they didn't know how to enter an unpublished hold, give out a departure clearance or file and fly an IFR flight plan. One guy got violated because he was screwing things up with approach on an IFR X-C. Imagine if his students squeked by on a check ride with that shoddy training.
A quick lapse in situational awareness or a misunderstanding of when to descend on an approach is all it takes to kill yourself in IMC. Make sure you're a responsible instructor and go through a complete course of ground and flight training before taking this check ride.
We have had so-called CFIIs come to our school and screw up a bunch of students because they didn't know how to enter an unpublished hold, give out a departure clearance or file and fly an IFR flight plan. One guy got violated because he was screwing things up with approach on an IFR X-C. Imagine if his students squeked by on a check ride with that shoddy training.
A quick lapse in situational awareness or a misunderstanding of when to descend on an approach is all it takes to kill yourself in IMC. Make sure you're a responsible instructor and go through a complete course of ground and flight training before taking this check ride.
nosehair
Well-Known Member
At first, I thought you were taking the position that it really didn't take any preparation,...but I (think) I see you are just stating how it actually is in the field. Well, yeah,...that's why I pipe up when I see people bragging about "I got mine in .1"
Don't you guys read on these forums and other places about how "uncomfortable" most CFII's are in actual?..or pilots with IR's being "uncomfortable" going actual? About how some flight schools don't even allow their CFII's to go actual. Haven't you seen the kinds of mis-understandings, and plain ignorance of CFII's?
Well, you're enableing this continued downward fall of the flight instructing profession, and ...it is dangerous.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
There we go nosehair, I knew we would be in agreement on this "dangerous" point I was hiding in my words. Fact is, people will always take shortcuts and I know plenty of flightschools with CFI-I's teaching something they have barely ever experienced. Damn old school people, I know...
JustinA
Well-Known Member
There we go nosehair, I knew we would be in agreement on this "dangerous" point I was hiding in my words. Fact is, people will always take shortcuts and I know plenty of flightschools with CFI-I's teaching something they have barely ever experienced. Damn old school people, I know...
I am not trying to take a shortcut. If I can do most of the flight time in an FTD/SIM, then cool, I am saving money.
You guys are getting way off topic. I didn't ask my SIMPLE question to hear you rant. K Thanks.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
JulietBravo
On Call, On Demand
Justin,
After I got my CFI-A, and hired by the school here, we got free time in the sim. For me, I used the sim as much as I could to "Simulate" myself being in actual. Isn't that what a simulator is for!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Use the sim AS MUCH as you can. It's easy on the pocket book and allows you to get into scenerios you wouldn't want to be in an airplane.. better learning experience. After I did time in the sim, I did 2 flights in the actual airplane and took the II ride. I turned out fine. I've already had 2 students get their Instrument from the ground up since August and the DPE didn't have any problems with them. It's what you make of it.
If people want better quality instructors, then how do people build that experience?.. they get a job flying.. and the only way to get a job is to have the hours.. and the only way to get hours is to instruct. It's a never ending cycle. So unless someone has a better solution, back off of the current instructors because were doing the best we can in this day and age.
After I got my CFI-A, and hired by the school here, we got free time in the sim. For me, I used the sim as much as I could to "Simulate" myself being in actual. Isn't that what a simulator is for!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Use the sim AS MUCH as you can. It's easy on the pocket book and allows you to get into scenerios you wouldn't want to be in an airplane.. better learning experience. After I did time in the sim, I did 2 flights in the actual airplane and took the II ride. I turned out fine. I've already had 2 students get their Instrument from the ground up since August and the DPE didn't have any problems with them. It's what you make of it.
If people want better quality instructors, then how do people build that experience?.. they get a job flying.. and the only way to get a job is to have the hours.. and the only way to get hours is to instruct. It's a never ending cycle. So unless someone has a better solution, back off of the current instructors because were doing the best we can in this day and age.