CFI Who Wears Shorts

ATN_Pilot said:
Bingo! That's the problem. That's the attitude that I want to avoid. When someone wears jeans or shorts to work, it demonstrates that they have problems with adhering to societal norms and traditions. That's not a professional attitude, in my opinion, so I look elsewhere. A dislike for following the rules and "playing the game" is not a good vibe to be letting off from a pilot.
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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think it shows they are a bit of a free thinker, not a lemming, and aren't afraid to push for change when it makes sense. I don't think it's any reflection on their ability as a pilot, and frankly I prefer pilots who don't blindly adhere to the "system." It allows for more fluidity, and better decision making.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Bingo! That's the problem. That's the attitude that I want to avoid. When someone wears jeans or shorts to work, it demonstrates that they have problems with adhering to societal norms and traditions. That's not a professional attitude, in my opinion, so I look elsewhere. A dislike for following the rules and "playing the game" is not a good vibe to be letting off from a pilot.
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Thats an incredibly douchey way to judge someone who wears shorts in a spam can in Florida/Texas/Arizona in the summer.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who think the way you do.
 
Bradg33 said:
....It allows for more fluidity, and better decision making.
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...and more money?

You never addressed the point I was making all along, of well-dressed instructors having the capability to earn a higher income.
 
In addition, as others have mentioned, the level of discomfort in a small aircraft without the benefits of A/C in many parts of the country is pretty bad. As long as the CFI presents a clean, well-kept appearance, I just don't see the problem with a nice pair of khaki shorts and a polo. It reduces the distraction of discomfort. I would think reducing distractions, especially as a CFI, would be a good thing.

Now, if your student is well-heeled and you guys are tooling around in an air-conditioned Cirrus? Yeah... wear the slacks. But in anything that has limited to virtually no airflow, and is essential a brutal combination of greenhouse and oven, while instructing somewhere the temps are well into the 90's or 100's and the humidity is off the charts? Have a little compassion.
 
Roger Roger said:
Thats an incredibly douchey way to judge someone who wears shorts in a spam can in Florida/Texas/Arizona in the summer.
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I was required to wear either a uniform or trousers, a dress shirt, and a tie when I was flight instructing in a "spam can" in Florida. Hell, I had to beg them to let me wear the dress clothes as an alternative to the uniform, because at least those were cotton and wool instead of unbreathing polyester. I survived it. Didn't even bitch about it, in fact. Not really that big of a deal.

People are such wusses nowadays. Damn SNAPs.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who think the way you do.
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You can find it "unfortunate" if you want to, but it is reality that many people feel the way I do. Better to live in reality than to live in a fantasy world where you clothing doesn't send messages to your potential customers.
 
Not that it means anything to anyone, but I always wore shorts and t shirts, and got my first "real" flying job while I was hung-over napping on the couch at the FBO. I wore shorts, deck shoes, and a fishing shirt at that job, and that job led me into a king air and a falcon.

The point is, ive never really lost out on anything because of the way i dress. I know there are times when slacks and a polo are appropriate, but ive also been known to hop on the plane with jeans and a t-shirt if i know the customers pretty well.

Different strokes for different folks, but I dont subscribe to the idea that you're going to be losing out if dont dress the part. I think most people are more concerned about your ability and general attitude.
 
I've never considered a CFI in shorts/polo any less of a professional, but then again I wear a leather jacket and no hat. :)
 
jrh said:
...and more money?

You never addressed the point I was making all along, of well-dressed instructors having the capability to earn a higher income.
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I don' think there is any basis for that point. I don't have anything specifically to refute it, nor do you have anything to support it (beyond purely anecdotal evidence).
 
Bradg33 said:
But what is the "part?" The part is providing instruction in a small, hot space. Any student with half a brain gets this, and shouldn't expect you to be wearing pants and a dress shirt. Nice shorts and a nice t-shirt or polo should be perfectly acceptable. Again, I emphasize the "nice" part. Ratty shorts or a t-shirt that you'd wear working in your yard aren't what I'm talking about. A nice looking, properly fitting, clean t-shirt or a similar polo, combined with nice, properly fitting shorts. I mean, you still have to use your head and make sure you look good, but that doesn't mean business casual.
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...which is why I added "whatever that is for wherever you are", i.e., use your judgement. To illustrate the point, honey attracts bees: wear "honey" to attract your "bees" who want to pay you for your knowledge, skill, and ability to make them safe pilots-in-command. To attract useless "flies" and other pests, dress like...stuff flies are attracted to...

-A.S>
 
Clothes; the person they do not make. Know your audience is key. We interviewed a few folks and everyone showed up dressed nicely the first time and we all made fun of them as we were all wearing shorts and t shirts hanging around the office, heck I had a grizzly Adams beard as I had been off for a few days.
I want to hire someone with grey matter between the ears and who can find good BBQ on the road and can talk about something other than airplanes. The universal boy scout outfit of blue suit, red tie and overly polished shoes is nothing more than fascade, show me the real person.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I am primarily an engineer. In most cases, wearing a suit and tie results in customers not wanting to deal with me. Jeans or shorts - pretty much what most of my customers wear. And these guys make a lot of money, more than most pilots.

Depends on the job, depends on the clientele, depends on the industry.
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I can see where the suit & tie wouldn't work out too well in that line of work ;)
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Summer in the south you could fly naked and it wouldn't make a difference. I really don't see much of an improvement in wearing shorts. Not saying there isn't a difference, just not significant enough to where I would waste time over thinking it. For a checkride, if really in doubt as to what impression you may give off in shorts, just wear pants. Problem solved. I think everyone complaining about uniforms are probably the same people who swore that when they got older and finished school they would never have to wear a uniform again; they later found out they were simply trading in their school uniform for work uniform upon graduation. Also do people really decide what job to take depending on whether or not there will be epaulets involved? Priorities in order... 1. No pilot uniform 2. Shorts mandated 3. Everyone has to call me by my favorite name I wish my parents would of given me 4. I dont know? maybe pay/qol.
If theres a good job opportunity, or there's nothing more available, I'll dress in a banana suit if thats what the company requires. I'll put in my hours, get my paycheck, and dress however I like when I am off the clock. I just never got what the big deal was with uniforms, maybe its just because I have no fashion sense so I always wear jeans and a polo as every day attire, uniform or no uniform I pretty much look the same anyways.
 
Bradg33 said:
I don' think there is any basis for that point. I don't have anything specifically to refute it, nor do you have anything to support it (beyond purely anecdotal evidence).
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Well, no, I don't have a comprehensive survey, but I can tell you the names of a dozen instructors who make more than $35k and not a single one of them wear shorts. I can also name a bunch of instructors in shorts, but they're all the weekend warrior type who I don't take very seriously.

This web site is all about giving career advice. That's all I'm trying to do. Sure, there will always be guys like Cmill who slip into great gigs without dressing up. I would never recommend a person bet their career on others not caring what they look like.
 
jrh said:
Well, no, I don't have a comprehensive survey, but I can tell you the names of a dozen instructors who make more than $35k and not a single one of them wear shorts. I can also name a bunch of instructors in shorts, but they're all the weekend warrior type who I don't take very seriously.

This web site is all about giving career advice. That's all I'm trying to do. Sure, there will always be guys like Cmill who slip into great gigs without dressing up. I would never recommend a person bet their career on others not caring what they look like.
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Kudos to them for doing well, but I rarely put much stock in anecdotal evidence...

Either way, I'm not advocating not caring what you look like. I think that if you dress sloppily, people won't take you seriously, etc. That said, I don't think nice shorts and a nice t-shirt or polo is sloppy, especially taken in context (which is quite important). Show up to fly a nice air conditioned airplane in shorts and a t-shirt? Maybe not so much, but show up to fly a C172/Archer/Arrow/Bonanza that has no a/c on a 95* day in shorts and a t-shirt? Entirely reasonable and appropriate.
 
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