CFI Wages

SIUav8er said:
I think the key word here is $50 "SALARY" per week

If you are on salary, minimum wage requirements do not exist.
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WTF are you talking about. Just because I call a rotten turnip a Watermelon doesnt make A) any less rotten or B) any less of a turnip.

If you are REQUIRED to be on the premisis even just sitting there doing NOTHING else you are to be paid a minimum of $5.15 Federal (state could be higher) per hour.

The kicker here is at 14/flight hour if you bill 24 flight hours for the pay period you've just made minimum wage and the company is ok. But on the periods where you dont bill 24 the company is legally required to ensure you meet minimum wage.

I.E. like the other post said you have to look at the total pay for the period and divide by the hours you were required to be at the company. If it comes up to less than $5.15 you have grounds to file a complaint. But likethe poster said be ready to find a new job.
 
CapnJim said:
OK then, I'm starting a union for CFI's. All members will pay dues, of course, but how else are we going to pay for the lawyers? Why do we need lawyers? to sue flight schools who illegally fire thier workers for demanding thier legally owed wage. I'm not a CFI anymore, but I love fighting the good fight.
Who's with me?
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Sounds like a good idea to me.
 
SIUAv8r said:
Sounds like a good idea to me.
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How would you fund this union? You'd have to give up a pretty big chunk of your income as a CFI in the form of dues to afford even the worst of labor lawyers IMO.
 
wheelsup said:
How would you fund this union? You'd have to give up a pretty big chunk of your income as a CFI in the form of dues to afford even the worst of labor lawyers IMO.
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There are a lot of reasons this wouldnt work, but if you had *every* CFI onboard, you'd probably have plenty of funds with a $10/wk "donation"
 
Yep. And here's how you get them to join: CFI's who are unionized get better pay, better work rules, and can't be fired summarily ala ATP. All for ~$10 a month in dues. I'd have done it in my day, if I hadn't worked for the school I worked for. They were so badass I wouldn't have needed it, but they are way, way the exception. Most schools suck ass, and it's bacause they're allowed to get away with it.
Here's how we start: Find the rottenest to work for, most illegal school we can. Sue the sh't out of it. Tie the owners up ny the nuts so that they either have to pay the CFI's, or pay the state fines. And if they try to fire the CFI's involved-- harassment suit. It's illegal anyways, we'd just be holding thier balls to the fire. Plenty of local press too. Letters to the editor of the 'Bumville Tribune' or wherever, pickets, that sort of thing. If we can get the local news in on it, perfect. We'd have to have an airtight case, and we'd have to string 'em up by thier balls. You know, make an example and all that. It's all a PR war in the beginning, like a street gang. Beat some dumbass up, get a reputation.
It'd be hell in startup costs, but we may get sympathy financing from airline pilots who have some extra dough to contribute. Hell, who knows, if we can get the CFI pay up, maybe we can get the regional pay up to beat it. And so on... get the picture?
Am I just being a retard here? Is anyone else picking up what I'm laying down?
 
PurduePilot said:
At any rate here's how I'm compensated for my time... I get paid a flat salary of $50.00/week. Then I get paid $14.00/flight hour on top of that. If my flight only lasted 1.6 hours then it's $14.00 x 1.6 = $22.4.

By my math that $50/week works out to roughly $10/day, which is less than minimum wage for the hours I put in this job.
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[FONT=&quot]All I have to say is that this is NOT the way it has to be. There are flight schools out there that treat and compensate their instructors better. I moved 1000 miles to get my CFI job. It is paying off for me. Don't let someone take advantage of you. I've never heard of Shiny Cessna Syndrome.

If it were any other similarly-paying menial job, I would report their ass to the state's department of labor. If fired in retaliation you would have a case for unemployment benefits. Unfortunately in this business you have to pick your battles. It may be easier to just forget them and move on.

Mike[/FONT]
 
CapnJim said:
Am I just being a retard here? Is anyone else picking up what I'm laying down?
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I am - perhaps additional sectors of aviation could be involved, too. If you get enough already existing aviation organizations and companies to donate a small amount, it could make for start-up funding. While asking for donations, I would emphasize how it may be a benefit to their specific organization or business, and the industry and employee retention as a whole.

It's a wonderful idea. And there will be TONS of nay-sayers, saying it's too hard or it won't work, etc. But if it's well thought out, the right people are contacted, and the CFI's are pulled together to voice their concerns, it could be a very positive thing for CFI's now and in the future. Even if it takes a bit and there's no "huge revolution" in a short period of time, IT'S BETTER THAN NOT TRYING ANYTHING AT ALL, and sitting by watching your friends get treated this way.
 
Here we go again.:( Try getting billed out at 54 clams an hour and then only getting 10 bucks! I have lost count of how many 14hr days I have pulled only to get 3 or 4 hours on the paycheck if I was lucky. The little rich prick punks I work with have mommy and daddy to pay the payment on their expensive cars. You think this kid is going to bitch? hell no! After all, he is ready to pay money today for your job flying ANYTHING! F'ed up world we live in. I wish we could get our instructors to come together and STRIKE!!!! I think they would realize the BS bonus they gave us 2 months ago was a half assed way to keep us quiet. Needless to say, if a sister campus gets screwed with weather for a week or two, we all get the SHAFT! No bonus for anyone.
take a wag where I work?:banghead:
 
Getting paid that little is definitely illegal. You don't classify as an exempt employee, therefore you are entitled to an hourly minimum wage. If you are working less than minimum wage by being required to sit on your butt all day from 8am to 6pm, find the contract in writing then report them to the Labor Board.
 
gurisudenko said:
I am - perhaps additional sectors of aviation could be involved, too. If you get enough already existing aviation organizations and companies to donate a small amount, it could make for start-up funding. While asking for donations, I would emphasize how it may be a benefit to their specific organization or business, and the industry and employee retention as a whole.

It's a wonderful idea. And there will be TONS of nay-sayers, saying it's too hard or it won't work, etc. But if it's well thought out, the right people are contacted, and the CFI's are pulled together to voice their concerns, it could be a very positive thing for CFI's now and in the future. Even if it takes a bit and there's no "huge revolution" in a short period of time, IT'S BETTER THAN NOT TRYING ANYTHING AT ALL, and sitting by watching your friends get treated this way.
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Except that there's no incentive to join the union. Unlike airlines, membership would be purely optional, and it would never have enough force to "scare" people into joining (see: UAW). Besides, there are plenty of career CFIs who are happy with their wages. It'd be hard to run a union wi th such quick turnover.
 
Folks:

It seems I can report them to the DOL and have wages increased for those around me, but in the end I may get fired for being a whistle blower.

Since I'm not making a career as a pilot and I have really nothing to lose here, I may just do that.

It seems as if this thread to beginning to colalise around the idea of making a grassroots PAC to get wages increased (at least from illegal to legal).
 
Back in the day when I instructed the company I worked for did a very similar thing. No Salary, expected to be there 8-10 hours a day with or without students. The only time you got paid was when you were in the plane. When I checked into the way they go around it was you were a sub contractor. No taxes were taken out and no benifits were give.

Needless to day not many of us stuck around there long.


There are better places to instruct and that will treat you like a human.
 
CapnJim said:
Am I just being a retard here? Is anyone else picking up what I'm laying down?
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Yeah, you're just setting up a get rich quick scam :) Send your money to CaptnJim lol

as for the other post i moved 1,900 miles to be paid 2x what i was, fly clean maintained a/c and work a 100 hr month. sweet!
 
gurisudenko said:
I would emphasize how it may be a benefit to their specific organization or business, and the industry and employee retention as a whole.
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By "benefit" do you mean increased labor costs or increased longevity in an industry that BANKS on turnover? This would NOT benefit an employer. Unions, as a whole DO NOT benefit an employer. If they did, wouldn't all employees be in some sort of a union?

IT'S BETTER THAN NOT TRYING ANYTHING AT ALL, and sitting by watching your friends get treated this way.
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I disagree, market forces dictate what a flight school (or any company) pays an employee. If the employees are not happy, they leave, as several people (including myself) have done. Owners will increase compensation or benefits until they can hang on to people. "Supply = Demand" That's the way it should work, IMO.
 
moxiepilot said:
Yeah, you're just setting up a get rich quick scam :) Send your money to CaptnJim...
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Damn!! Busted!!! Ah well, guess I have to try and make my millions at the regionals... Now that's comedy!
 
wheelsup said:
I disagree, market forces dictate what a flight school (or any company) pays an employee. If the employees are not happy, they leave, as several people (including myself) have done. Owners will increase compensation or benefits until they can hang on to people. "Supply = Demand" That's the way it should work, IMO.
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This is true for high quality too - I can't tell you how many students I've gotten from less expensive flight schools because I treat them well, I like my job (and it shows) and I study constantly to make sure I am teaching right. I charge higher rates because of this and much of my business if from referal! The owner of the school I contract with sees that I bring him alot rental business and has no problem with letting me work with student independently if I want to.

PerduePilot - what your employeer is doing is illegal but relatively unenforced. There are too many pilots willing to accept this type of abuse because they need the time. Look around for a school that treats their employees better! Good luck!
 
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