CFI Shortage....

[Beefy McGee]

@USMCmech

Zuluflight down by Mobile did that a couple years ago. They put Redbird sims in the mall in Spanish Fort, and had a couple 172s down the road at the Callahan airport by Fairhope. Think they partnered with Continental (engines) to some extent at Callahan. Used to hear the 172s in the air, not too often, and it always sounded like Chinese students. Talked to a CFI at the mall sim site, and they were pretty much lucky to sell an intro flight to someone based on a casual passer-by dropping in at random. They got a few steady students though. They had several sims, from low end "computer on a desk" to some of the bigger full motion sims, and the prices weren't bad if you wanted a block of time to work on instrument stuff for practice. They would even let two outside CFIs buy a block of time in the full motion sim to practice IFR without their company CFI present just to increase utlization (I was one of them, though ultimately we never bought the block). I don't know if they are still running that mall site.

 

[av8tr1]

I wonder how well putting a couple of those redbird sims in a retail space such as a mall would work?

One thing about flight training is that most flight schools "storefront" has all the appeal of a medium security prison. Redbirid has created a "sim-centric" flight training model, so why not put the sims where there is a lot of foot traffic and easy access, then head out to the airport for the flight portion. There is absolutely no reason that Sims need to be anywhere near an airport.

That and I bet you get a lot of traffic that just wants to fly the Redbird for fun. For most of the public it will be their only chance to fly a sim of that caliber. You would get a significant amount of people that just want to play a cool video game.

 

[killbilly]

I wonder how well putting a couple of those redbird sims in a retail space such as a mall would work?

One thing about flight training is that most flight schools "storefront" has all the appeal of a medium security prison. Redbirid has created a "sim-centric" flight training model, so why not put the sims where there is a lot of foot traffic and easy access, then head out to the airport for the flight portion. There is absolutely no reason that Sims need to be anywhere near an airport.

That's a neat idea, but foot traffic wouldn't be ideal.

The idea would be to use the sim to supplement a ground school, and refer/flip those students back to FBOs for their training. It only works in a major metro where you have customers with a lot of disposable income who are interested in flying but have tight schedules and need the convenience of the school close to their offices or metro living space.

In short, some place like DC.

I was thinking about it, and there wouldn't be any reason why the place couldn't allow CFIs from those same schools to come in and instruct their own students - the facility would just bill back the "home" FBO a moderate service charge. We could also opt to direct-bill the school for the sim time, but given how financially precarious a lot of FBOs are, I'd prefer to get the money for the sim direct from the user. Dunno. I'd have to think about how that could and would work.

Perhaps having it on your own grounds that you already pay rent for makes it cheaper for you? I can't imagine rent on a property just for a sim location could be very profitable but that's just my opinion.Plus, rent with higher foot traffic is probably more as well. Depending on your student body size it could be a hit or a complete bust. That's just my thought. He did say that lots of people flying around his area would benefit from this so that's good for the idea then.

Yeah - all space for this would be expensive. The idea is to bring the sim to where the clients are. Cities like DC, NYC, Philly...the really densely populated ones with an affluent professional class in the city - that's where this works. It wouldn't really work in a sprawling place (I don't think) like Dallas because the place is huge and lousy with airports and FBOs no matter where you are in the city. Although putting one in the Uptown area might make sense....again, I'd have to think about that.

It's just an idea that me and another guy here had. I don't have the attention span or the means to start a business right now.

But if I was going to, that's definitely something I'd look hard at.

 

[UIPilot45X]

I'm a part-time CFI at a mom & pop style FBO. Other than the chief pilot, we have one other full time instructor...although he's not technically full-time as they just bumped him over to the charter department. The balance of us are either working other full-time aviation/charter jobs, full-time non-aviation jobs or retired. I don't see anyone beating down our door to work there. My school also runs a camp program at a private boarding type school in the summer...they offer flight lessons and such for younger highschool kids. They usually have no problem finding instructors do this over the summer. All they heard this summer was crickets...

 

[killbilly]

I'm a part-time CFI at a mom & pop style FBO. Other than the chief pilot, we have one other full time instructor...although he's not technically full-time as they just bumped him over to the charter department. The balance of us are either working other full-time aviation/charter jobs, full-time non-aviation jobs or retired. I don't see anyone beating down our door to work there. My school also runs a camp program at a private boarding type school in the summer...they offer flight lessons and such for younger highschool kids. They usually have no problem finding instructors do this over the summer. All they heard this summer was crickets...

What area of the country are you in?

 

[UIPilot45X]

What area of the country are you in?

Midwest. The Chicagoland area.

 

[mrivc211]

Hey Guys,

Doing some independent research.

What's the CFI availability at your school/shop? Please mention if it's a career track/non or 61/141 if you can.

Anecdotal stories are OK. This isn't scientific or anything.

Richman

I work as an independent CFI at the same school I taught at in my early twenties. I bill at $70/hr. On top of that, I make $34/hr on the airplane hobbs. Since my rate per hour is good, I'll work 10-12 hours days, which are hard but worth it when it's all cash. I have more students than I can handle. The other 2 CFI's at our place also have more than they can handle. I don't know how long this will last, but nothing lasts forever. If the crap hits the fan here, I can go over to Asia and fly for $300k/yr with my type ratings and experience. We are a small part 61 school. I thought about starting my own school, but after owning several businesses, I decided it wasn't worth the headache of mx problems, employees, student headaches. I go in when I want, make my cash, and leave. No boss to ask me anything. So far this year, I've had 5 students take their checkrides, all 5 have passed. My avg student completes his private in 45-50 hours which is rare for SoCal. I apply a lot of the training methods I learned from 121 to my training. I sit down with the student in the beginning in front of a 172 poster and go thru the checklist several times to familiarize them with it, then I go thru button by button, item by item on the 172 poster to discuss what every switch does. I have found that it has reduced training times by 20-30%. In return, these students have passed the word along that I am getting guys finished at 45-50 hours and my business is booming. Be good to students and you'll be rewarded.

 

[J.salter]

Work closely with flight schools, and the word on the street in greater urban California is that many part 61 outfits are in need of CFIs, especially specialty training like aerobatics/tailwheel. Outfits that never advertise for CFIs on their websites are now doing so, some are turning away students. But 141 schools are looking too, ERAU in Prescott is hurting for instructors BAD, especially CFIIs. I see a career path mix- some airline track guys/gals getting their time and bolting for the airline, some part timers picking up 135 gigs, some retirees that just want to teach a couple days a week.

Also in demand and rarely talked about are A&Ps in general aviation, the shops I talk with cannot find good techs to save their lives. Not many kids coming through the pipeline, and the ones that are either want too much($30/hour straight out of A&P school) and/or don't know a screwdriver from a 3/8 socket. A competent technician can do pretty well in the long run these days. Lots of opportunity in helos or corporate heavy iron that potential techs rarely consider.

Being a comm rated pilot and A&P, I'm getting offers to teach if I get my CFI, and/or wrench right away...don't know...flying a desk is not the satisfying job I though it was...seriously considering leaping back into fray if(when?) my wife gets that big promotion!!!!

So this my experience anyway, from sunny California.

 

[Roger Roger]

Also in demand and rarely talked about are A&Ps in general aviation, the shops I talk with cannot find good techs to save their lives. Not many kids coming through the pipeline, and the ones that are either want too much($30/hour straight out of A&P school) and/or don't know a screwdriver from a 3/8 socket. A competent technician can do pretty well in the long run these days. Lots of opportunity in helos or corporate heavy iron that potential techs rarely consider.

Quoted for truth.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Best Bay Area CFI job?

I'm not too sure about the pilot shortage deal yet. Other than normalizing airline hiring (now it is too rapid) it hasn't changed much for a pilot in the Bay Area. When I got my RPO sign off the owner of the piston 135 and flight school now requires a training contract to teach in an SR22. I was given no time off for the birth of my first child and someone was ready to replace me right away. Hence my current position on the street.

 

[crticalaoa]

Aerosim is giving away 10k bonus and free cfii and mei for a time commitment of about a year for cfii and 250 dual given on the multi. The 90 minute break is not true. You can easily change that. I been with the company for 4 months and average between 130 to 145 hours every month.

 

[Stone Cold]

Hey Guys,

Doing some independent research.

What's the CFI availability at your school/shop? Please mention if it's a career track/non or 61/141 if you can.

Anecdotal stories are OK. This isn't scientific or anything.

Richman

I hear the market is so flooded there are CFI's willing to work for free...

 

[Hacker15e]

I sit down with the student in the beginning in front of a 172 poster and go thru the checklist several times to familiarize them with it, then I go thru button by button, item by item on the 172 poster to discuss what every switch does. I have found that it has reduced training times by 20-30%.

Bravo.

It has always frustrated me that so many CFIs prefer to perform in-flight instruction and not preface it all with zero-knot pre-flight instruction on the ground.

 

[T-Swift]

Bravo.

It has always frustrated me that so many CFIs prefer to perform in-flight instruction and not preface it all with zero-knot pre-flight instruction on the ground.

The only way you get to talk and get the student to notice things is to take the controls, keep watch, fly the plane and describe what you need probably using your hands and evaluate how their taking the information, all simultaneously...

I like the ground.

 

[Jordan93]

The only way you get to talk and get the student to notice things is to take the controls, keep watch, fly the plane and describe what you need probably using your hands and evaluate how their taking the information, all simultaneously...

I like the ground.

Sometimes I got more out of briefs and de briefs than I did from the actual lesson. I don't understand why some instructors still don't conduct briefs before and after the flight.

 

[Hacker15e]

Sometimes I got more out of briefs and de briefs than I did from the actual lesson. I don't understand why some instructors still don't conduct briefs before and after the flight.

I suspect it is because briefs and debriefs don't add 1/10ths to the logbook of CFIs who are trying to get hours to move on to their next flying gig and ground time doesn't pay as well as flight time.

 

[Jordan93]

I suspect it is because briefs and debriefs don't add 1/10ths to the logbook of CFIs who are trying to get hours to move on to their next flying gig and ground time doesn't pay as well as flight time.

I was building time to go the airlines as a CFI but really enjoyed the journey. I learned a lot from my students and managed to have a perfect pass rate. I did only sign off 6 students though in the year I was instructing. Pretty satisfying when you take a student with zero hours and little knowledge to a licensed pilot.

 

[BarbieDreamPilot]

I

I was building time to go the airlines as a CFI but really enjoyed the journey. I learned a lot from my students and managed to have a perfect pass rate. I did only sign off 6 students though in the year I was instructing. Pretty satisfying when you take a student with zero hours and little knowledge to a licensed pilot.

Yeah it's a great feeling.

At my 61 shop we have 5 full time and 1 part time instructor. Myself and one other instructor are weeks from leaving. I know our chief would love to hire more CFIs but he has a hard time finding them with full time availability.

 

[mrivc211]

My current student is 19 years old and weeks away from his IFR rating. I kid you not, he went down to Mexico City and was offered a position with Volaris once he had his commercial. No joke. He said he went to the networking event and most of the future new hires were 19-20 years old, 250-300 hours, being placed into the Airbus. I have no problem with the airline taking a 0 time guy and molding him into what they want with supervised in house training. But these are guys that had training at any random place so you don't really know the level of airmanship. On several occasions I've had to pull the leash on my student and tell him when he gets there, its going to be hard, stressful, and not easy. He laughs it off. I also told him if he gets through the training to take his job seriously and assist the captain as best as he can because he's going to be doing some serious flying in an airbus with 100+ pax in the back at 19 years old. He's more interested in the lifestyle than he is actual job. (Flight Attendants, despite me telling him it gets old.....quick). Most 19 year olds in Irvine/Newport Beach where I teach lack maturity.

 

[hook_dupin]

Perhaps having it on your own grounds that you already pay rent for makes it cheaper for you? I can't imagine rent on a property just for a sim location could be very profitable but that's just my opinion.

Plus, rent with higher foot traffic is probably more as well. Depending on your student body size it could be a hit or a complete bust. That's just my thought. He did say that lots of people flying around his area would benefit from this so that's good for the idea then.

Mall property managers are scrambling for anything. I think in some markets, you could get 3 months free rent just to try something. Rent some office furniture, and see if Red Bird will loan a sim for a few months.

You may be able to start the concept without much out-of-pocket.