Just wondering how everyone faired at the CFI meeting a few weeks back. Who got a raise and who ended up with lower pay? I know they won't just cut your pay, but if you were forced to go to the new pay scales would you be lower? Also what does everyone think of the additional compensation?
CFI PAY
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ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
I have to admit my pay was crap before at UND. What happened to the pay now? DhruvK and I were there when they made us full time students instead of full time employees, and that sucked.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Yea what's the new deal?
Zidac
Well-Known Member
Hourly Wage Rates
Level 1 - $13.00 per student contact hour billed.
*To be eligible for levels 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6(2), flight instructors must be available to maintain a flight schedule consisting of at least 6 students that are in a three-day a week flight lab, 3 students that are in a three-day a week flight lab, or a combination of the two. The flight training schedule requirement may be modified by the appropriate supervisor(s) if the flight instructor conducts stage checks or other job related duties as assigned.
To be eligible for levels 4 and 6, stage check pilots must meet the stage check activity criteria set by the appropriate supervisor(s).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additional Compensation: (no longer based on yearly contact hours)
-$200 for each 102 finished
-$150 for each 325 finished
-$100 for each 414 finished
Level 1 - $13.00 per student contact hour billed.
- Part time flight instructor
- Possesses a CFI
- Possess a CFII and assigned to teach instrument students.
- Possess a CFII, assigned to teach instrument students, and assigned as a stage check pilot.
- Possess a MEI and assigned to teach multi-engine students.
- Meets one of the three qualifications:
- Qualified and assigned to teach initial CFI students
- *Possess a MEI, assigned to teach multi-engine students, and assigned as a stage check pilot.
- Assigned as a full time stage check pilot.
- Assigned to teach high performance turbine courses
*To be eligible for levels 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6(2), flight instructors must be available to maintain a flight schedule consisting of at least 6 students that are in a three-day a week flight lab, 3 students that are in a three-day a week flight lab, or a combination of the two. The flight training schedule requirement may be modified by the appropriate supervisor(s) if the flight instructor conducts stage checks or other job related duties as assigned.
To be eligible for levels 4 and 6, stage check pilots must meet the stage check activity criteria set by the appropriate supervisor(s).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additional Compensation: (no longer based on yearly contact hours)
-$200 for each 102 finished
-$150 for each 325 finished
-$100 for each 414 finished
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Losing additional compensation sucks, but I'm glad they finally added a Stage Check differential to the hourly. 6 students for full-time pay is a bit rough, but it's not like you guys are short work at the moment!
Overall, net positive unless you're a grunt teaching a steady diet of 221/222/323. More incentive to run 102s, which I'm sure is what mgmt is after given how bottom-heavy the student body is and how much old dogs hate teaching primary.
Overall, net positive unless you're a grunt teaching a steady diet of 221/222/323. More incentive to run 102s, which I'm sure is what mgmt is after given how bottom-heavy the student body is and how much old dogs hate teaching primary.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
If they actually put together a seniority-based pay raise system they might not have as much of an issue retaining CFIs. But Oenip and Ztluhcs have about the foresight of a goldfish.
ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
I know after 3 years I didn't have much incentive to stay. However, this system would have been a massive boost to my pay. I was a full time stage instructor for a while, but never got assigned full time 414 students due to my stage check workload.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Were you around when they made the Standards Stage Check pilot position? Basically you had 6 stage slots and would only take one or two students per semester.
ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
Not sure, left in 2012. I know I had a lot. I usually had 4 full time students and the rest were stage slots. Usually have around 10 stage checks per week. With the 102's that was a 3 hour oral window, and a 3 hour flight window. So 60 hours a week planned plus 4 full times. With cancellations ended up with a lot of 70 hour weeks. (paid around 40, which still bugs me. I worked 84 hours a week for the past few years, and I got paid for every hour of it). So this would have been a pay boost as I was paid as a CFII and not a stage instructor.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Ahh. Later on they created a "standards check pilot" position, you worked in the standards department, had 6 stage slots, and one student. And you got Initial CFI rate whether or not you were actually doing 414s. I did it, hated it, glad I moved on. Lots of 100-hour paid for 50 hour weeks. Especially with all the pre-planning, scheduling, and instructor debriefing.
At least 20-30% of your time as a UND CFI is spent unpaid chained to the nearest copy of AIMS. They really need to wise up and just offer a base "admin" stipend to cover the amount of time you spend chewing through scheduling/tasking/debriefs/etc.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
"But it will cost the students more."
Here's an idea: There are fixed costs and there are variable costs associated with running the flight school. Bill the students a per-semester lab fee to cover the fixed costs, and bill the students per hour to cover the variables. Incorporate that into a "Base plus" payscale. Problem solved (and UND wouldn't be the first flight school to have a base plus CFI payrate).
Thunder-Robo
Well-Known Member
Cause we all know AC221 and 222s were the biggest cash grabs ever! Glad I never did stage checks...
Do people actually call for debriefs?
Do people actually call for debriefs?
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Alot of what UND does is a cash grab.
thevideographer
Well-Known Member
This increase would have helped me slightly, an extra $2 an hour. The stage check bonus would have been nice but did they get rid of the yearly bonus? Because I made a lot more on that bonus than I would have on these course completions.
They really do need to compensate people for the non-contact hours put in though. I spent countless hours on AIMS and doing course clears uncompensated. They shouldn't simultaneously demand perfect record keeping that requires instructors to go through logbooks line by line and then not pay for any of that time.
All of that said, I was making considerably more at UND than I am as a first year regional FO. I thought I would be doing slightly better here but it hasn't worked out that way so far.
They really do need to compensate people for the non-contact hours put in though. I spent countless hours on AIMS and doing course clears uncompensated. They shouldn't simultaneously demand perfect record keeping that requires instructors to go through logbooks line by line and then not pay for any of that time.
All of that said, I was making considerably more at UND than I am as a first year regional FO. I thought I would be doing slightly better here but it hasn't worked out that way so far.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Who said instructors were required to go through the logbooks?
If the course clear email comes back and the error wasn't one that I made, it's not on me to fix it.That's another thing CFI's need to be up front with their students about. "If you fail at math in your logbook and it delays your course clear, the only person who is hurting you is you, so you get to fix it."
thevideographer
Well-Known Member
Who said instructors were required to go through the logbooks?
That's another thing CFI's need to be up front with their students about. "If you fail at math in your logbook and it delays your course clear, the only person who is hurting you is you, so you get to fix it."
Actually a lot of people specifically say CFIs need to go through logbooks. And I was told that CFIs are allowed an average of 2 record corrections per student per semester before it hurts their eval, so I wouldn't just leave it in the students' hands.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
That's cute. My last lead (when I was a line CFI) and I had a very good understanding that I was not a babysitter and things that were unarguably beyond my control were not to be considered a part of the Eval.
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