Hey everyone, I just wanted to get some opinions on going through the advanced airline track or going through the FlightSafety instructor track. What would be the best choice? I first thought that getting all the hours and certifications you can before you get started with a regional airline the better and more attractive you are to different companies down the road. But I also have been told the sooner you get hired the sooner you start making more money and building seniority. So I guess what I am asking is it worth putting in the extra time helping out other pilots learn to fly while gaining valuable experience of my own? Or am I waisting a year or so that I could have been using to build seniority? Any opinions or advice would be great thanks.
CFI or get in fast?
- Thread starter speedsta5
- Start date
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Well-as this has been discussed 583 times on this board-the short answer is what are you going to do when you're furloughed from said regional and the market is flooded with 10,000 right seaters?
Well I guess what I really meant was does it look that much better, being an instructor, over someone that was not an instructor to a potential employer. I understand the instability of the industry and the need for a back up plan. I just wanted to hear opinions on whether getting a regional first officer position as quickly as possible would be best (getting ahead on gaining seniority) or would instructing for a year or so look better on a resume for a major airline or upgrading in the future. I am sorry if I am bringing up an old topic and if everyone is tired of talking about it then it would be great if someone could tell me where I could find some answers on the forum or anywhere. Thanks again.
Well, to bastardize a situation:
Person A went through FSA’s CIME and tried to AATP his way to ASA.
Person B went through FSA’s Instructor Track (after the CIME), fulfilled his commitment and interviewed at ASA around the same time as Person A.
Let’s say they interviewed a couple weeks ago.
One day, Person A got a call saying his ASA class date (after his AATP) would have to be pushed back until October (or possibly longer; they are no longer hiring), where person B is going to be in ATL very soon for basic indoc. (Will he get furloughed soon there-after, who knows. At least he’ll have a plan B other than hopefully another 121 operator (what if they all stop hiring) (Plan B pays better btw)). Meanwhile, person A is left hanging out, hoping Eagle (the only airline really left interviewing for the AATP) actually comes when they say they are, as it is his only viable alternative. (Not saying anything bad about Eagle, things have been changing rapidly lately.)
Since ASA is not currently hiring, ExpressJet is not currently hiring, and since Pinnnacle and TSA have hired people with less than 400 TT recently (and could anyone say when the last time Pinnacle interviewed at FSA was? TSA was there in small form (only hired a couple) earlier this year (early January), but with $100/barrel oil, neither may be back for a while.), the only option that “makes sense” to go through an AATP for is Eagle (they hire less than 500TT (sending you to FSA to complete basically ½ the AATP for free)). The question I have is, how much longer will Eagle continue hiring? And what does their schedule look like in regards to coming to FSA and interviewing in the near future? The current Eagle/FSA contract has only been in place for about 6 months and if the Eagle spin-off/IPO occurs, what will happen then? Who knows.
Things have definitely gotten crazy real fast lately; ASA was planning on bringing another CRJ200 to VRB to promote hiring and the AATP, but I believe that was canceled. Regardless, a week or so after the date it was there (or was supposed to be?), they quit hiring.
Other than that, a friend of mine who has been flying for WN since 1984 told me the other day when I was talking to him about my training that he wishes he would have gotten his CFI, etc. back when he was training; once his career started rolling, he just never got around to it, and wishes he had.
Granted you may be able to make more $ instructing elsewhere, after having flown at another big named flight school (and other random places), I can say (for the most part) the instructors at FSA set the standard. Granted there is a lot of “stuff” to put up with at FSA (as there is almost anywhere), most seasoned instructors or check-airmen that I’ve flown with have said things like (after giving my training background) “I can tell you trained a while at FSA.”
"Sir! I have a plan!
Mein Führer! I can walk!"
Person A went through FSA’s CIME and tried to AATP his way to ASA.
Person B went through FSA’s Instructor Track (after the CIME), fulfilled his commitment and interviewed at ASA around the same time as Person A.
Let’s say they interviewed a couple weeks ago.
One day, Person A got a call saying his ASA class date (after his AATP) would have to be pushed back until October (or possibly longer; they are no longer hiring), where person B is going to be in ATL very soon for basic indoc. (Will he get furloughed soon there-after, who knows. At least he’ll have a plan B other than hopefully another 121 operator (what if they all stop hiring) (Plan B pays better btw)). Meanwhile, person A is left hanging out, hoping Eagle (the only airline really left interviewing for the AATP) actually comes when they say they are, as it is his only viable alternative. (Not saying anything bad about Eagle, things have been changing rapidly lately.)
Since ASA is not currently hiring, ExpressJet is not currently hiring, and since Pinnnacle and TSA have hired people with less than 400 TT recently (and could anyone say when the last time Pinnacle interviewed at FSA was? TSA was there in small form (only hired a couple) earlier this year (early January), but with $100/barrel oil, neither may be back for a while.), the only option that “makes sense” to go through an AATP for is Eagle (they hire less than 500TT (sending you to FSA to complete basically ½ the AATP for free)). The question I have is, how much longer will Eagle continue hiring? And what does their schedule look like in regards to coming to FSA and interviewing in the near future? The current Eagle/FSA contract has only been in place for about 6 months and if the Eagle spin-off/IPO occurs, what will happen then? Who knows.
Things have definitely gotten crazy real fast lately; ASA was planning on bringing another CRJ200 to VRB to promote hiring and the AATP, but I believe that was canceled. Regardless, a week or so after the date it was there (or was supposed to be?), they quit hiring.
Other than that, a friend of mine who has been flying for WN since 1984 told me the other day when I was talking to him about my training that he wishes he would have gotten his CFI, etc. back when he was training; once his career started rolling, he just never got around to it, and wishes he had.
Granted you may be able to make more $ instructing elsewhere, after having flown at another big named flight school (and other random places), I can say (for the most part) the instructors at FSA set the standard. Granted there is a lot of “stuff” to put up with at FSA (as there is almost anywhere), most seasoned instructors or check-airmen that I’ve flown with have said things like (after giving my training background) “I can tell you trained a while at FSA.”
"Sir! I have a plan!
Mein Führer! I can walk!"
Here's an honest answer -
It appears that regional, freight, or major airlines don't care presently if you flight instructed as long as you meet whatever requirements they have. (Naturally, there are bound to be exceptions.)
At this stage of the game, I think deciding or not to instruct is a very personal thing. Sure, if you don't, you might lose out on some seniority. You might be the group who gets furloughed while a guy hired a week before you makes captain. Everyone has their stories, but in the end, you just can't know what seniority will do, or not do for you.
Example: a guy is stuck on reserve for a year while a guy hired a week before holds a line.
Example: a guy holds a line right away and the guy hired a week before holds a line right away.
You just can't know.
So you can certainly *try* and beat the system by getting on as soon as possible while not really knowing if you are really helping yourself or not.
But you have to ask yourself what kind of aviator you really want to be. If you can easily look yourself in the mirror while choosing not to instruct, so be it. Enjoy your career and I wish you the best. However, if you have that certain nagging feeling that says "do more," and "be better," then you might want to instruct for a bit.
As a disclaimer, before you listen to my advice blindly, I am not an airline pilot, I am a freight pilot. We do have a seniority system though. And, while you certainly wouldn't need to instruct to get a regional job, you'd have to do some sort of experience building to get a freight job.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
The CFI is a heck of a rating. I wouldnt trade it for anything. Seriously.
I have made alot of good friends and good contacts with being a CFI.
I have made alot of good friends and good contacts with being a CFI.
sdfcvoh
This is my Custom Title
I decided about a year ago to go through the "zero-hero" scheme and make it into the airlines. I'm currently studying for my CFI. I started in July. Recently I decided to slow down and become a pilot.
We all have different motivations, but I'll insert mine. First, you must decide that you either want that romantic position as a pilot (it fades) or you want to be a good pilot and be safe for the future.
You can do the pilot "academy" and "fast track" school. You'll learn the PTS (research that) and be able to pass your checkrides... but eventually you may find that you really do have a passion for this "flying" stuff! At that point, you'll also realize that it is time to become a safe pilot. You will also decide at that time that being a CFI isn't just a step in the process...
All I'm saying.... if you want to be a real pilot, you should learn by being a CFI. Since the FAA pushed back the age retirement from 60 to 65.... you now have an additional 5 years granted to you that never existed before.
Take that time. Learn to fly. Learn to be the safest pilot ever. Eventually you will arrive at the same gate. But only one of you will be able to look back and tell yourself that you made it there in a way that truly benefited everyone that follows you in the field of aviation.
Fly. Just do it. It is AMAZING. Take the advice of the pros on this site that have been through it, too. Being a pilot is all about being a safe pilot. If you look at it that way from the beginning, you will be posting about your flight to Germany in another decade. But... don't try to rush through it. Flying is not made for that....
Everyone here on JC wishes you nothing but the very best!
We all have different motivations, but I'll insert mine. First, you must decide that you either want that romantic position as a pilot (it fades) or you want to be a good pilot and be safe for the future.
You can do the pilot "academy" and "fast track" school. You'll learn the PTS (research that) and be able to pass your checkrides... but eventually you may find that you really do have a passion for this "flying" stuff! At that point, you'll also realize that it is time to become a safe pilot. You will also decide at that time that being a CFI isn't just a step in the process...
All I'm saying.... if you want to be a real pilot, you should learn by being a CFI. Since the FAA pushed back the age retirement from 60 to 65.... you now have an additional 5 years granted to you that never existed before.
Take that time. Learn to fly. Learn to be the safest pilot ever. Eventually you will arrive at the same gate. But only one of you will be able to look back and tell yourself that you made it there in a way that truly benefited everyone that follows you in the field of aviation.
Fly. Just do it. It is AMAZING. Take the advice of the pros on this site that have been through it, too. Being a pilot is all about being a safe pilot. If you look at it that way from the beginning, you will be posting about your flight to Germany in another decade. But... don't try to rush through it. Flying is not made for that....
Everyone here on JC wishes you nothing but the very best!
Thanks guys. Thats what I was thinking before I found out about some of these fast track straight to the airline programs. When I first saw them I didn't want to fall into the tempting trap or take shortcuts that would keep me from being the best pilot I could be. But then I heard people say that it doesn't really matter if you instruct or not it just matters if you can get hired or not "because the sooner you get in the better off you will be later." Looks like I was right with my first instinct but I wanted to make sure and get as many opinions as I could and I appreciate all of the advice once again. I will continue my research and I can't wait to get started in about a year.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
I was in the same exact boat. I chose CFI for all the reasons others have already told you.
Number1atNumber2
Tries to keep it fun.
As a charter guy, I'll tell you the CFI rating has helped a lot. Even today I was told by my chief pilot he was glad I had a CFI and did it for awhile. The best way you can learn a thing is by teaching it to someone else. I wouldn't trade my CFI training for anything. Now would I trade my freight flying experience either.
I'm guessing you want to be in the airlines if you're considering the fast track programs though. Consider this too: the regionals are slowing down their hiring, and if it goes to furloughs even if you get in, that doesn't mean you'll have job security.
Definatly check previous threads about this, as there are plenty of counter points to the CFI side, some of them make quite valid points. That being said, I'd still recommend you CFI. Keep in mind, you may get to the regionals and hate it there, I know that may sound absurd, but it's been known to happen quite often.
And, if you want to try some other way to fly as a job, you're CFI will help open other doors.
I'm guessing you want to be in the airlines if you're considering the fast track programs though. Consider this too: the regionals are slowing down their hiring, and if it goes to furloughs even if you get in, that doesn't mean you'll have job security.
Definatly check previous threads about this, as there are plenty of counter points to the CFI side, some of them make quite valid points. That being said, I'd still recommend you CFI. Keep in mind, you may get to the regionals and hate it there, I know that may sound absurd, but it's been known to happen quite often.
And, if you want to try some other way to fly as a job, you're CFI will help open other doors.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I got comfortable in an airplane and making decisions by being a CFI. I'm not sure I buy that the experience in the airplane is all that useful further down the line...that is to say, I can't think of anything S-Turns have done for me lately...and I did plenty. You also might consider what the goal is. I always wanted to fly cargo (it was just happenstance that they were the only people who would take me ) so CFIing was a must to build the time. If you are commited to being a people-pilot, maybe it makes sense to go zero to hero. I like everything about freight (ok, maybe not the hours) and I don't think I'd fit in well in the 121 pax world, but I get a little tired of hearing guys getting bagged on because they take a "short-cut" (not saying anyone here is doing that). I'd have taken a short-cut too, if it had been offered, and so would everybody else, presuming it fit within their ethical framework.
More concretely, the concerns others have raised are legitimate. One must always try to plan for the unexpected. Will you get furloughed? If so, what chances will you have elsewhere? If you go for the short course, will you have 135 mins should the unfortunate happen and you're looking to put food on the table? For my part, my strategy has always been to A) Make a reasonable wage and B) Always be moving up...need multi? Get it. Need turbine PIC? Get it. Make yourself marketable. I enjoy the heck out of my job and I feel like I'm treated reasonably well. OTOH, if my contract were up tomorrow and UPS or even say Kalitta called...I'm out the door.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you should always focus on what will be best for your long term goals. Be the pilot you want to be, not the one someone else thinks you should. I say this as one of the guys who would swear on a stack of bibles that you're not a REAL pilot unless you've done a circling NDB to minimums in a thunderstorm partial panel single pilot. But in the end, that's all just (mostly) bluster. If you do a sober analysis and it seems like a good idea, get your stuff in and start moving up.
Clear as mud? Totally unhelpful? My work here is finished!
) so CFIing was a must to build the time. If you are commited to being a people-pilot, maybe it makes sense to go zero to hero. I like everything about freight (ok, maybe not the hours) and I don't think I'd fit in well in the 121 pax world, but I get a little tired of hearing guys getting bagged on because they take a "short-cut" (not saying anyone here is doing that). I'd have taken a short-cut too, if it had been offered, and so would everybody else, presuming it fit within their ethical framework. More concretely, the concerns others have raised are legitimate. One must always try to plan for the unexpected. Will you get furloughed? If so, what chances will you have elsewhere? If you go for the short course, will you have 135 mins should the unfortunate happen and you're looking to put food on the table? For my part, my strategy has always been to A) Make a reasonable wage and B) Always be moving up...need multi? Get it. Need turbine PIC? Get it. Make yourself marketable. I enjoy the heck out of my job and I feel like I'm treated reasonably well. OTOH, if my contract were up tomorrow and UPS or even say Kalitta called...I'm out the door.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you should always focus on what will be best for your long term goals. Be the pilot you want to be, not the one someone else thinks you should. I say this as one of the guys who would swear on a stack of bibles that you're not a REAL pilot unless you've done a circling NDB to minimums in a thunderstorm partial panel single pilot. But in the end, that's all just (mostly) bluster. If you do a sober analysis and it seems like a good idea, get your stuff in and start moving up.
Clear as mud? Totally unhelpful? My work here is finished!
West_Indian400
Well-Known Member
nice post:yup:
Carnival_Pilot
New Member
Defiantly get your CFI, just take a look at the current industry. Last year, the airlines couldn’t get enough pilots, now with oil prices, mergers its almost a complete turnaround. Even though you get furloughed, having a CFI is a excellent safety net at least from the immediate future. I did my CFI at FSA a few years ago, and it was a tuff but enjoyable experience.