CFI or CFII as initial?

[Hubbs]

Having decided that I am in less of a rush to get my instructor tickets (mainly as CFI jobs are few and far between at the moment, and do not want to shell out for American Flyers academy, I am going to try to get my ratings done independently with a lot of self-study and flying as required with my instructor in my flying club. Doing it this way I am certain I will be able to save some cash.

Anyway, it seems to me that the majority of 141 schools do the CFII as the initial and then the CFI-A as an add-on. I assumed that this is done to make the flying portion of the checkride simpler, as it is effectively a IR checkride from the right seat and it is assumed that the Federales are tougher than a DE. Are there any other benefits?

If I decide to go down this route, what obstacles are there out there to trip me up? I assume the oral will contain all the FOI-type questions, endorsements, limitations etc, but will it also expect me to be able to answer questions that would otherwise come up in a CFI oral?

Thanks for your input!

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

We do the CFII first, because it is easier to get a G1000 C172 through the maintenance inspection than the old Arrow. Their inspection process is ridiculous. At my old flight school, they grounded an airplane for a broken arm rest.

It depends on what the examiner wants to do. It is really luck of the draw. It should be instrument focused, though. Don't expect to pass on the first time.

 

[JustinA]

Don't expect to pass on the first time???

Mojo if you study hard and if you have determination then you should do just fine. I passed my initial with ease. Mainly because I knew everything in the PTS.

 

[Easton14]

If you do the CFII as your initial, does the checkride have to be in a complex airplane? Or would a 172 work?

 

[KC Jake]

If you do the CFII as your initial, does the checkride have to be in a complex airplane? Or would a 172 work?

It does not have to be in a complex. Only the CFI does because a CFI can teach commercial students.

 

[Hubbs]

We do the CFII first, because it is easier to get a G1000 C172 through the maintenance inspection than the old Arrow. Their inspection process is ridiculous. At my old flight school, they grounded an airplane for a broken arm rest.

It depends on what the examiner wants to do. It is really luck of the draw. It should be instrument focused, though. Don't expect to pass on the first time.

You picture disturbs me.

Assuming my choice of planes was an old Cardinal RG and an even older Cherokee, what would be my advantage in doing the CFII before the CFI?

I spoke to my instructor about this, and he has never done it this was round before and neither have his instructor buddies, and he is worried about sending me to the ride and then my being embarrassed as he had not taught me something.

Is it fair to assume that the oral portion will be much the same for the double I and the single I, in that there will be FOI-type questions, endorsement questions, and teaching an IR ground lesson rather than a private or commercial one.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies.

 

[Goonie]

Don't expect to pass on the first time???

Mojo if you study hard and if you have determination then you should do just fine. I passed my initial with ease. Mainly because I knew everything in the PTS.

I've signed off probably 50+ initial CFI/CFII applicants. I have a pretty good first time pass rate with about 70%.

I usually start every new ground school with "This will be the toughest checkride (as it should be) that you will ever take. Depending on the inspector you draw and what kinda day you're having then it can be the best or worst day of flying to date."

There is no standardization when it comes to inspectors doing checkrides. Thats the biggest hurdle for me.

There are a few inspectors that if my students draw them for a checkride I tell them "No matter how much you study and prepare for the checkride you WILL fail your first time.....sorry"

Its BS, but its the reality of the situation.

 

[Stomp16]

You picture disturbs me.

Assuming my choice of planes was an old Cardinal RG and an even older Cherokee, what would be my advantage in doing the CFII before the CFI?

I spoke to my instructor about this, and he has never done it this was round before and neither have his instructor buddies, and he is worried about sending me to the ride and then my being embarrassed as he had not taught me something.

Is it fair to assume that the oral portion will be much the same for the double I and the single I, in that there will be FOI-type questions, endorsement questions, and teaching an IR ground lesson rather than a private or commercial one.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies.

Ha ha. FOI "type" questions. Oh yea.....there will be those. How about, every page of the book?!?! At least that was my experience. My FOI part lasted 2 hours. I knew all the answers and it still took that long. Besides the FOI part, the rest of the oral was pretty simple. I had to teach every instrument in the six pack, how they work and so forth. Weather was a big part. But, after that, it was pretty basic Instrument questions. My word of advice is hit the FOI, HARD. If you start off well and make a good impression during the FOI portion, the rest should go just fine. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[Douglas]

My FOI part lasted 2 hours. I knew all the answers and it still took that long.

:yeahthat: I had two hours of solid FOI questions, then they were doubled up again in questions in the rest of 6 hour oral. I have heard of some applicants hardly getting even one FOI question (this is rare).

Ryan is right, some Examiners WILL fail applicants on the first time because. I don't think any route is easier than the other because the oral, I think, is the hardest part. Just fly the airplane and don't stop talking and you will be alright.
If you mess up on the flying part, treat them like a student and explain how to what went wrong and how to correct. If you have made it past the oral, they like this a lot better than giving you pink slip.

Also, just because you are doing CFII first, it doesn't mean that you will be going to a DPE and not the FSDO. This all depends or each independent FSDO. I have given flight instruction in ones that no matter their work load, they retain the right to do ALL initial CFI applicants. I have also Instructed in FSDO districts that farm out CFI applicants quite frequently.

What I always tell my students "Initial is initial. expect to have the book thrown at you and expect to prove yourself worthy. After you have proved yourself the checkrides get less intense (ie Initial CPL ASEL > CPL AMEL or ASES add-ons). :bandit:

Edit: stomp, you left Scottsbluff for KC. You have some pretty country out there in Scottsbluff, think my move would be the other way around. :cheers:

 

[Stomp16]

Edit: stomp, you left Scottsbluff for KC. You have some pretty country out there in Scottsbluff, think my move would be the other way around. :cheers:

Well, kind of. I was born and raised in Scottsbluff. I was one of those who couldn't wait to leave my parents house. I moved to Tulsa to flight train and when that was done, moved to KC. I would however jump at the chance to move back to my hometown now. I makes you appreciate it more when you've been away a long time!!!

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

It really depends on the examiner. My appt. started at 8:30 and I was back at the home airport at 12:45 with my CFI ticket in hand. We spent about 5 minutes on FOI.

 

[Douglas]

It really depends on the examiner. My appt. started at 8:30 and I was back at the home airport at 12:45 with my CFI ticket in hand. We spent about 5 minutes on FOI.

That might be the best "best case" CFI scenerio I have ever heard. You must have floored him in the first five minutes.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

That might be the best "best case" CFI scenerio I have ever heard. You must have floored him in the first five minutes.

I did wear a tie.:nana2::nana2:

Here is my experience I posted with the Ft. Worth FSDO almost two years ago...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/checkride-central/38426-cfi-checkride-passed-kafw.html

 

[Roger, Roger]

Yeah, I took my MEI initial with I believe Dallas FSDO (I forget the guys name...but he was a skinny black dude. Really cool guy). It was far easier than I had been led to believe. So it really does vary depending on who you take it with.