CFI on the side while at an airline

And your source is...?



True. But my airline's policy is that no outside commercial flying can be done. But now we're back to square one, is it commercial flying?
The question on whether you're excercising the privileges of your commercial pilot certificate rather than your private one rests on whether you're being compensated for acting as PIC of an aircraft.

If your student is capable of acting as PIC himself then you would not need to act as PIC even while you were capable of logging it as PIC.

If you're dealing with a primary student and you have to act as PIC you have to ask whether or not you are being compensated. The FAA defines compensation in very broad terms, so chances are that you are. Even if you're not being paid if you log the time in your logbook -- that is compensation.

However, a reading of the FAA legal opinion dated 10/23/1997 (Requesting an Interpretation of What is Considered Compensation Under Section 61.113 of the FAR) [do a google search] indicates that if you 1) Aren't receiving any actual compensation and 2) are not logging the flight in your logbook that you could act as PIC while excercising priviledges of your private pilot license. This legal opinion doesn't specifically mention flight instruction but it translates pretty well.
 
Well the chief pilot at my old flight school is a captain for American Eagle flying ATR72's, so... I'd have to say yes, you can.
 
I was wondering if regionals allow their pilots to flight instruct on the side if they so chose to? Also would instructional time count towards the 100 hours a month/1000 hours a year rule for part 121?

It depends on the airline but you probably could not work for a flight school. It would have to be under part 61 on your own. I work at a flight school and won't be able to stay there because it is a commercial operation.
 
Here's a few interpretations from FAA Counsel. Take whatever you want from them.

October 28, 1991
Mr. David Bodlak
Director of Flight Operations
Elliott Beechcraft of Omaha, Inc.
PO Box 19064
Omaha, NE 68119

Dear Mr. Bodlak:

Thank you for your letter of March 15, 1991, which was referred to this office by the Assistant Chief Counsel for the Central Region. We apologize that the press of other inquiries and regulatory matters have prevented us from answering sooner.

In your letter you ask several questions pertaining to rest periods required under Part 135 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR). You specifically ask about the boundaries of responsibility assigned to the certificate holder when operations unrelated to FAR Part 135 are conducted by a corporation holding an FAR Part 135 Operating Certificate.

The hypothetical situation you give is as follows:

ABC Company, Inc. (ABC) holds FAA operating certificates under FAR Parts 135, 141, and 145. ABC is engaged in the following activities:


Aircraft Maintenance (FAR Part 43, 145)
Aircraft Refurbishing
Aircraft Refueling
Aircraft Sales
On-demand Aircraft Charter (FAR Part 135)
Flight Training (FAR Part 141)
Contract Flight Operations (FAR Part 91)

Your first question asks whether a crewmember (we assume you mean a pilot) who is Part 135 qualified may participate in any of the activities listed below during a required rest period and still accept an assignment for ABC's Part 135 flight operations at the end of the rest period. The activities include:

Work for ABC's Certified Repair Station. (Part 145)
Painting an aircraft for ABC.
Fueling an aircraft for ABC.
Making an aircraft sales call for ABC.
Conduct of a training flight for ABC (Part 141)
Acting as a crewmember on a FAR Part 91 contract flight dispatched by ABC.

FAR 135.263(b) is quoted:


No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to
any duty with the certificate holder during any required
rest period.

None of the activities listed above may be performed by the flight crewmember during a rest period because they are all assigned by the certificate holder and thus in violation of FAR 135.263(b). The FAA has consistently interpreted a "rest period" to be a continuous period of time that is free from all restraint. This includes freedom from work, and freedom from responsibility for work should the occasion arise.

"Duty" has been interpreted to mean actual work for an air carrier or present responsibility to work should the occasion arise.

Your second question asks if this same flight crewmember may participate in the activities previously listed during a rest period if the work was done for another company, not ABC, and whether the flight crewmember could then accept an assignment with ABC for flight operations under Part 135, at the end of the rest period.

The answer is a qualified yes. ABC, as the certificate holder, has no way of forcing the flight crewmember to rest during a rest period. The prohibition against "other commercial flying" during a rest period applies to flying assigned by the certificate holder. The other commercial flying done by the flight crewmember does count against the daily 8 hour limitation if it is done before the Part 135 flying, and also counts against the pilot's quarterly and yearly flight time limitations. For example, 2 hours of "free lance" flight instruction by the pilot during his rest period limits him to only 6 hours of Part 135 flying time during that 24 consecutive hour period. Any other commercial flying done after the Part 135 flying does not count against the daily limitation, but still counts against quarterly and yearly totals.


An additional caution is that it is a violation of FAR 91.13 for a certificate holder or a flight crewmember to operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another. Lack of rest of the pilot is certainly a circumstance which could endanger others, and it is not necessary that the situation devolve into actual endangerment for there to be a violation of FAR 91.13. A certificate holder who uses a crewmember with knowledge of his or her lack of rest may be equally culpable along with the flight crewmember.

This interpretation has been prepared by Arthur E. Jacobson, Staff Attorney, Operations Law Branch, Regulations and Enforcement Division; Richard C. Beitel, Manager, and has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters. We hope it has satisfactorily answered your inquiry.

Sincerely,

Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
October 31, 1990 (#2)
INFORMATION: Interpretation of Rest Periods Required under Part 135

Acting Assistant Chief Counsel,
Regulations and Enforcement Division, AGC-200

Manager, NE-FSDO-03

This is in response to your memorandum of April 24, 1989, requesting an interpretation of Part 135 flight time limits and rest requirements. Your memorandum, which was originally sent to counsel for the New England region, was forwarded to us on May 4, 1989. We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry, and thank you for your patience.

In your memorandum, you state that there are companies in your region which hold more than one type of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certificate. For example, the same company may hold an air carrier certificate, operate flight schools under Parts 61 and 141 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR), and operate an executive flight department under Part 91. You also tell us that in many cases, the same pilots are used by the company for all their different flying functions.

Question #1

Your first question concerns paragraph (d) of Section 135.267, which provides as follows:

"Each assignment under paragraph (b) must provide for at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period that precedes the planned completion time of the assignment."

You ask whether a pilot for a company holding more than one type of certificate can fly company people under Part 91, flight instruct for the same company under Parts 61 and 141, and then count these types of flying time as rest within the meaning of paragraph (d) of Section 135.267.

Answer

The answer is no. A rest period cannot be infringed upon by the performance of any duty for the certificate holder.

For purposes of the Part 135 rest requirements, time spent engaging in such activities as flying company people under Part 1 and acting as flight instructor under Parts 61 and 141 would be considered "other commercial flying."

"Other commercial flying" means any nonmilitary flying as a required crewmember, other than in air transportation, for which the crewmember is paid for his or her services. The general rule regarding rest requirements is that if the other commercial flying is assigned by the certificate holder, it may not be conducted during a required rest period.

In the question you have presented to us, the same company or organization which is the Part 135 certificate holder is also assigning the other commercial flying. Although it may be wearing a different hat at the time of the assignment - that is, that of operator under Parts 61, 91, or 141 - it is still the pilot's employer in Part 135 operations.

We cannot accept the argument that the company is not acting as a Part 135 certificate holder when it assigns the pilot the other commercial flying time. To do so would be to permit the rest requirements of the FAR to be subverted. As you know, the rest requirements have an important safety purpose. They are intended to eliminate fatigue, and all the danger fatigue causes, as a factor in air transportation.

Question #2

Your second question, which also involves paragraph (d) of Section 135.267, is whether office functions associated with the Part 61 or Part 141 flight school or the Part 91 executive flight department can be assigned to a pilot by the company holding various certificates during rest periods required by Section 135.267(d).

Answer

The answer, which can be found in Section 135.263(b), is no. Section 135.263(b) contains rules which apply to all certificate holders, and provides as follows:

"No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to ANY duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period." (Emphasis added.)

Section 135.263(b)'s reference to duty is all-inclusive. By the plain terms of the regulation, a rest period cannot be infringed upon by the performance of any duty for the certificate holder, including office duty.

Question #3

Your third and final question concerns paragraph (f) of 135.267. Paragraph (f) provides as follows:

"The certificate holder must provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours each in each calendar quarter."

You ask whether the company which is the certificate holder can assign office duties associated with the flight school or the executive flight department during the required rest periods.

As stated above, Section 135.263(b) provides that:

"No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to ANY duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period." (Emphasis added.)

Once again, since this provision's reference to duty is all-inclusive, a rest period cannot be infringed upon by the performance of any type of duty for the certificate holder, including office duty.

This interpretation has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters. We hope that it has satisfactorily answered your inquiry.


/s/

Donald P. Byrne

Bold emphasis added.
 
When you are giving flight instruction, you are exercising your flight instructor certificate, not your commercial certificate. That is why you can instruct, and be paid for it, with a 3rd class medical.

Are you not using both? Is your flight instructor certificate valid without a commercial certificate?
 
Are you not using both? Is your flight instructor certificate valid without a commercial certificate?
No to both.

No, you aren't using both. You're being paid/compensated to instruct, not to fly. No, your CFI certificate isn't valid unless accompanied by (commercial/atp) certificate number (insert number).

The flying does count as commercial flying towards flight time limits though. I never understood why this was the way it is (aside from fatigue, which is in play all the time-91.13). Seems like they're saying "it doesn't work both ways..............but it does". That's the FAA.

-mini
 
The flying does count as commercial flying towards flight time limits though. I never understood why this was the way it is (aside from fatigue, which is in play all the time-91.13). Seems like they're saying "it doesn't work both ways..............but it does". That's the FAA.

-mini

What do you think rest requirements were established for? I think fatigue would be the main reason. So if you look at it from a fatigue stand point it is the same. You are being paid to be PIC in an airplane. If you instruct for 4 hours that is going to make you just as tired as flying for 4 hours in the FAAs mind. Why do you think there is a reg stating you can't instruct for more than 8 hours in any 24 hour period. Most airlines won't allow it because they don't want you timing out (1000 hours) in the middle of september because you instruct on your days off. If this happened the company still has to pay you your guaranteed hours for you to sit at home and not fly. Now if you went up with a buddy and gave him some friendly pointers/instruction without being compensated and not logging it as dual given it would be ok. However you couldn't sign him off if you were worried about a paper trail.

Also most of my DPEs were 121 captains at major airlines. Does that count as commercial flying? I don't think it does because they are not PIC. I dunno though they are getting compensated and I think those guys need a commercial license to do it???
 
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