CFI on the side while at an airline

montanapilot

montanapilot

Well-Known Member
I was wondering if regionals allow their pilots to flight instruct on the side if they so chose to? Also would instructional time count towards the 100 hours a month/1000 hours a year rule for part 121?
 
Check 121.489 it talks about other commercial flying. the e-cfrs seem to not be working at the moment so I cannot get the specific citation but you should find what you are looking for in there.
Seth
 
121.489 Flight time limitations: Other commercial flying.

No pilot that is employed as a pilot by a certificate holder conducting flag operations may do any other commercial flying if that commercial flying plus his flying in air transportation will exceed any flight time limitation in this part.
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since one can flight instruct with only a 3rd Class medical, would CFIing really be considered to be a commercial activity?
 
montanapilot said:
since one can flight instruct with only a 3rd Class medical, would CFIing really be considered to be a commercial activity?
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If you're getting paid for it, it's commercial flying. Would you not be exercising the privilege of a commercial pilot's license?

To answer your original question, I think many airlines have a prohibition against "other commercial flying", but can often be waived with the approval of a chief pilot.
 
Many 121 carriers have a restriction in their company manual against outside commercial flying. The current 135 operator I work for will allow outside commercial flying with the approval of the CP. YMMV.
 
sefro said:
Check 121.489 it talks about other commercial flying. the e-cfrs seem to not be working at the moment so I cannot get the specific citation but you should find what you are looking for in there.
Seth
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so if you could get company approval and do just a few hours a month, that would be ok?
 
BuickCFI said:
so if you could get company approval and do just a few hours a month, that would be ok?
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I have no idea but I think you have to get permission from your cheif pilot. I think that any flying you do, instructing or whatever as long as you are getting paid is part of your 1000 a year. EVEN if it is part 91 instructing.
Seth
 
found it
§ 121.517 Flight time limitations: Other commercial flying: airplanes.

No airman who is employed by a certificate holder conducting supplemental operations may do any other commercial flying, if that commercial flying plus his flying in operations under this part will exceed any flight time limitation in this part.

and
§ 121.489 Flight time limitations: Other commercial flying.

No pilot that is employed as a pilot by a certificate holder conducting flag operations may do any other commercial flying if that commercial flying plus his flying in air transportation will exceed any flight time limitation in this part.

My guess is so that you cannot time yourself out during the year..
I am sure there are better experts out there but my impression is that Flight instruction is a form of commercial flying hence the need for a commercial license
 
I was always under the impression flight instructing, even if I wasn't getting paid, was excercising the priviledges of my commercial pilot's license -- as I am not paying my pro-rata share for the expenses of the flight and the FAA has long held that logging flight time can be considered compensatory.
 
montanapilot said:
I was wondering if regionals allow their pilots to flight instruct on the side if they so chose to? Also would instructional time count towards the 100 hours a month/1000 hours a year rule for part 121?
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Sure you can, depending on the airline.

I talked to a new hire during ground school that wanted to keep his occasional charter job in SLC that asked me the same question. I walked him over to the office, introduced him and he was granted permission on the spot.
 
Speaking of majors.....

I know a certain 75CA that preferred to be paid cash for instructional activities to eliminate any paper trail........


guess they might not approve.....
 
When you are giving flight instruction, you are exercising your flight instructor certificate, not your commercial certificate. That is why you can instruct, and be paid for it, with a 3rd class medical.
 
Back to the whole 'is providing flight instruction a commercial activity' thing.. I believe that you're being paid for your instruction, and you are not operating an airplane carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. You also don't even need a medical (unless you have to act as PIC), so how can it be a commercial activity? That said, some people will argue that you have to have a commercial certificate to be a CFI, so it must be commercial activity.
 
CamYZ125 said:
Back to the whole 'is providing flight instruction a commercial activity' thing.. I believe that you're being paid for your instruction, and you are not operating an airplane carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. You also don't even need a medical (unless you have to act as PIC), so how can it be a commercial activity? That said, some people will argue that you have to have a commercial certificate to be a CFI, so it must be commercial activity.
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In section 119 it talks about the exclusion of student instruction for air carrier certification is this implying that student instruction is still a commercial operation but it does not require a air carrier certificate? So do we imply that the FAA sees student instruction as a form of commercial opperation?
See
§ 119.1 Applicability.

(a) This part applies to each person operating or intending to operate civil aircraft—
(1) As an air carrier or commercial operator, or both, in air commerce; or
(2) When common carriage is not involved, in operations of U.S.-registered civil airplanes with a seat configuration of 20 or more passengers, or a maximum payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more.

and I am going to skip down to section E
e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to—
(1) Student instruction;

I will stop with student instruction but it continues on with other operations that you can do as a commercial pilot.
To me this seems like a bit of a grey area because in here it seems that they are implying that student instruction is a commercial operation..
Opinions?
 
mojo6911 said:
When you are giving flight instruction, you are exercising your flight instructor certificate, not your commercial certificate. That is why you can instruct, and be paid for it, with a 3rd class medical.
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True, but....

CamYZ125 said:
That said, some people will argue that you have to have a commercial certificate to be a CFI, so it must be commercial activity.
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Maybe it's a grey area. However, the original question asks about an airline's stance on this, and every interpretation I've heard from an airline has said that flight instructing time counts against your Part 121 flight time limits. (Unless, of course, the student makes their check out to "Cash" as suggested a few posts above)
 
Yep. The CFI time counts against your flight time limits for your airline job. You can get approval, usually, from the airline with the caveat that if you time out and can't accept an airline trip...you're in trouble.
 
sefro said:
I will stop with student instruction but it continues on with other operations that you can do as a commercial pilot.
To me this seems like a bit of a grey area because in here it seems that they are implying that student instruction is a commercial operation..
Opinions?
Click to expand...

The way the FAA defines which kind of operations require a commercial operator certificate is fairly encompassing. That list is just a list of operations that can be excluded from that requirement to have a commercial operator certificate. For instance, it would be pretty darn hard to operate a flight school while trying to never holding out to carry passengers from place to place for compensation or hire. That list serves as way for the FAA to come out and say it's all right to do those things as long as it's for training.

The things listed in 119 are not necessarily "commercial operations", per se. They just don't require a 135 or 121 operator certification, meaning you can get paid to do them with just a commercial pilots license. As far as it counting towards 121 requirements, I have no idea, I don't fly 121. It would depend on how they define "commercial flying".
 
B767Driver said:
Yep. The CFI time counts against your flight time limits for your airline job.
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And your source is...?

B767Driver said:
You can get approval, usually, from the airline with the caveat that if you time out and can't accept an airline trip...you're in trouble.
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True. But my airline's policy is that no outside commercial flying can be done. But now we're back to square one, is it commercial flying?
 
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