CFI (MEI) mishap
- Thread starter gtpilot
- Start date
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
No heater - you'd have to be a good ways up to use one in July
...I think they were diverted briefly due to storms and were at 4.0 when it ran out. He says they put 20 gal in the dry tank and 10 gal in the wet tank and the fuel gages both read 20 gallons after that. At max power the Seminole is supposed to burn 12.4 gal/hr/engine which would come out to 4.4 on the flight time. However, they weren't flying at max power or the trip would have been finished in 3.5 or 3.6.
Keep in mind though, any number of stupid things can get you - like forgetting to lean or keeping the electric fuel pumps on. Right now, it's only his word that says all the proceedures were followed correctly.
Keep in mind though, any number of stupid things can get you - like forgetting to lean or keeping the electric fuel pumps on. Right now, it's only his word that says all the proceedures were followed correctly.
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Right now, it's only his word that says all the proceedures were followed correctly.
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Right now, it's only the flight school's word that he didn't.
This school sounds like a looser, and he can have the FAA put their maintence under a microscope.
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Let's lay the cards on the table here:
So what's the name of the school?
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Right now, it's only his word that says all the proceedures were followed correctly.
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Right now, it's only the flight school's word that he didn't.
This school sounds like a looser, and he can have the FAA put their maintence under a microscope.
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Let's lay the cards on the table here:
So what's the name of the school?
ananoman
New Member
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I'm gonna call shenanigans, Fearless.
A Seminole has 108 gallons of gas, 106 of that is usable I believe. Flight planning 20 gallons per hour (10 per engine ) is more than conservative enough. I've never hit 20 an hour in a Seminole, more like 16. That's at full power at around 10,000' and 2,300' RPM. That gives you at least 4 hours with a one hour reserve (my personal minimum). I've done 4 hours legs in a Seminole before with no problems. In fact I've normally landed and had more than an hour left in the tanks (unless of course the meter for the gas pump is jacked in which case I wouldn't have a clue how much time I had left in the tanks).
[/ QUOTE ] When ever I went on cross countries in the Seminole, I always went max cruise. The book calls for 22.4 gallons per hour at 75% power (the old book for the Seminoles made in the late 70's). The POH for the new Seminoles gives a fuel burn of 23.4 GPH at 75% power.
If the flight was made using this power setting, was leaned improperly, or was not totally full when it took off could easily be very low on gas after a 4 hr flight. That being said, if you fly at 75% power, you can usually count on a TAS of 155-160 KIAS, so a 480 NM flight would only take a little over 3 hours.
You don't say how much fuel the Seminole took when it landed and how much fuel remained in the tank that still contained fuel. If I was your friend, I would have been very interested to know this.
There is a lot of missing information, (did your friend ever talk to the mechanics?) so it is hard to decide on a cause with any confidence.
I'm gonna call shenanigans, Fearless.
A Seminole has 108 gallons of gas, 106 of that is usable I believe. Flight planning 20 gallons per hour (10 per engine ) is more than conservative enough. I've never hit 20 an hour in a Seminole, more like 16. That's at full power at around 10,000' and 2,300' RPM. That gives you at least 4 hours with a one hour reserve (my personal minimum). I've done 4 hours legs in a Seminole before with no problems. In fact I've normally landed and had more than an hour left in the tanks (unless of course the meter for the gas pump is jacked in which case I wouldn't have a clue how much time I had left in the tanks).
[/ QUOTE ] When ever I went on cross countries in the Seminole, I always went max cruise. The book calls for 22.4 gallons per hour at 75% power (the old book for the Seminoles made in the late 70's). The POH for the new Seminoles gives a fuel burn of 23.4 GPH at 75% power.
If the flight was made using this power setting, was leaned improperly, or was not totally full when it took off could easily be very low on gas after a 4 hr flight. That being said, if you fly at 75% power, you can usually count on a TAS of 155-160 KIAS, so a 480 NM flight would only take a little over 3 hours.
You don't say how much fuel the Seminole took when it landed and how much fuel remained in the tank that still contained fuel. If I was your friend, I would have been very interested to know this.
There is a lot of missing information, (did your friend ever talk to the mechanics?) so it is hard to decide on a cause with any confidence.
ananoman
New Member
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They landed and found the one side dry and the other side seemed to have fuel. They refueled and returned home and the CFI reported the problem to the school as a faulty fuel gage and a potential fuel leak.
[/ QUOTE ] If this is true, your friend is probably screwed. Running out of gas due to a mechanical problem is one thing, but if your friend thought the aircraft had a possible fuel leak and flew it home anyway he deserves a violation.
The fuel gauge is a non issue. The only thing you should be using in a light aircraft to keep track of fuel is your watch.
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I'm gonna call shenanigans, Fearless.
[/ QUOTE ] I'd have to agree. I'm wondering how it took 4 hours to go 430 NM in a Seminole. Must have been some head wind.
They landed and found the one side dry and the other side seemed to have fuel. They refueled and returned home and the CFI reported the problem to the school as a faulty fuel gage and a potential fuel leak.
[/ QUOTE ] If this is true, your friend is probably screwed. Running out of gas due to a mechanical problem is one thing, but if your friend thought the aircraft had a possible fuel leak and flew it home anyway he deserves a violation.
The fuel gauge is a non issue. The only thing you should be using in a light aircraft to keep track of fuel is your watch.
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I'm gonna call shenanigans, Fearless.
[/ QUOTE ] I'd have to agree. I'm wondering how it took 4 hours to go 430 NM in a Seminole. Must have been some head wind.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
If I remember right, he said he put 20 gal in the left and 10 on the right. When they restarted, both gages read 20 gal. The 4 hours (480 NM) was an intentional thing for training requirements I think so they were keeping it slow. The school is accusing him of running it full speed for 4 hours and says that's why it ran out of fuel.
I think he spoke with the head of the mechanic's shop a week later and the problem was not reported to them. And yes, he's probably in for a violation at this point and pretty much accepts that.
I think he spoke with the head of the mechanic's shop a week later and the problem was not reported to them. And yes, he's probably in for a violation at this point and pretty much accepts that.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Just thought I'd update - My friend cooperated fully with the FAA without the use of an AOPA lawyer. They invited for a 'recheck' of his commercial certificate (an oral covering preflight planning and prep) which was satisfactorily completed and the FAA won't be taking further action.
Interesting thing is he said the 'aviation inspector' at the FAA indicated that my friend's full cooperation and acceptance of responsibility led to the 'recheck' only indication. The inspector also indicated that if a lawyer had contacted them, they would have taken a harsher stance on the incident. Not sure I like that but at least my friend made it out ok!
Interesting thing is he said the 'aviation inspector' at the FAA indicated that my friend's full cooperation and acceptance of responsibility led to the 'recheck' only indication. The inspector also indicated that if a lawyer had contacted them, they would have taken a harsher stance on the incident. Not sure I like that but at least my friend made it out ok!
bob loblaw
New Member
mtsu_av8er said:
And have the school sue him for slander. This is excellent advice.
bob loblaw
New Member
Pfly said:
Yeah, whats good for the goose..
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I'm glad it worked out.gtpilot said:
For a lot of incidents, cooperation and acceptance of responsibility results in softer handling. That's not only the FAA. It's also true for minor criminal offenses and the DAs and courts as it is with the FAA.
I tend to doubt, though, that it would have gone much differently if your friend had a lawyer. A lawyer means "knowledgeable advisor," not "let's fight them every inch of the way." If what the inspector said about using a lawyer was accurate, he's probably the exception or has been in contact with the wrong lawyers. Most of the AOPA lawyers know enough (1) to know that for some incidents, cooperation is the key; (2) to know that for other incidents, defense is the key; and (3) to know the difference between the two.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
MidlifeFlyer said:
I have to agree with you, cooperation and taking responsibility really goes a long way! In this case, I understand that the AOPA lawyer recommended stonewalling the FAA which would have resulted poorly, I think. Unfortunately, that's the only experience I have with AOPA's legal program and it's all heresay on my end. (Or is it???
)Regards!
Marc