CFI-ME or CFI-IA first?

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
OK the goal is to get both my "MEI" and my CFII but I'm wondering which order I should do them in.

The DE I did my IA ride with said that of all the instructor ratings the "MEI" is the easiest. He can do initial ratings so I'm not worried about riding with the FAA.

However, I'd like to do my CFII first so I can get my brother going on his Instrument tickect and while we work on that I could be knocking my MEI out of the way - so I can eventually give my bro all the rest of his ratings.

I know the initial are usually harder (is that because of the traditional FAA ride ... or are they "really" harder). If this is the case it makes more sense I think to do the easier ticket (the MEI) first then do the II as the add-on.

Any thoughts? Did this even make sense?
 

aviator

New Member
You could take them both at the same time. If you already have you intial CFI. Neither one is really all that challenging.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
One of those two will be my initial instructor rating.

Doing my Multi-Commercial in two weeks (and it will be my initial Commercial).
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
pilot602
I don't know you or your opportunities, but allow me to make a few comments. 1. Why are you bypassing the CFI initial in a SEL? If its because you want to bypass teaching primary students and teach only advanced or multi engine students I believe you will be sorely dissapointed. No flight school is going to allow you to waltz in off the street and bypass the "norms" of advancement, unless your family owns the FBO. I also believe you will be missing out on the best learning opportunity, teaching someone who does not know how to fly to reach the most rewarding flight of thier life=the initial solo. 2. You can easily combine your efforts and get your MEI and II in the same checkride, I did this but granted I was very instrument proficient. 3. You shouldn't be worried about any check ride ... if you are properly prepared for it. Personally I don't believe you would be worth much to a flight school with low total time, no real teaching experience and with only a CFII / MEI. I believe you owe it to yourself and to your "students" to get the experience that comes with being a primary flight instructor, in my humble opionion.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know you or your opportunities, but allow me to make a few comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't.

First, I did my private in a single then added the private-multi because my father, brother and I bought a PA-23-160. Thus all my training and time building beyond the 39.9 hours I have in my single/private training have been done in the multi. Out of 312 total hours, thus far, nearly 260 are multi.

Second, no where did I indicate that I was trying to "bypass primary instruction in a single." I find it rather offensive that you assumed I was trying to "cheat" the system in some way. Not only do I fully expect to have to teach out of singles first - I look forward to it - when the time comes. However, it makes more sense to get my initial commercial - and instructor ratings - in the multi because we OWN it. To go out and rent a single to do the commercial - and instructor - work is, well, stupid.

Third, a motovating factor to get my initial instructor ratings in the multi is so I can finish my brother's ratings up (he is an ASEL/AMEL private as well) and thereby save us a little money in terms of instruction. Anything I'm al ittle rough on I'm sure my father can help fill in. Dad is a 24,600 hour retired captain and between myself and him I think we can manage to get my brother squared away.

After he is taken care of I fully intend to get my CASEL and CFI-SE add-ons so that I can instruct on a paid basis at a FBO. I am FULLY aware that the lieklihood of me being able to instruct multi is very limited - given those spots generally go to the senior instructos - and even if I could I'd probably not make enough to justify it seeing as multi students (not even considering multi+[insert rating here]) are rare.

So back to my original question - which should I do first CFI-ME or CFI-IA?
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
pilot602
Chill out, I qualified my remarks with the word IF, so if the following didn't apply you should have ignored my comments. I still stand by my opionion that to be an effective flight instructor, even in your own twin, you should work through primary flight instruction first. period. If you were offended by my remarks, welcome to aviation, someone will always be willing to give you thier two cents worth, but since you asked for it this time you should have a little thicker skin.

There is a BIG difference instructing in a MEL compared to a SEL airplane and you better have some experience and judgement going into it. It' NOT about what makes sense monetarily but what makes sense experience wise and I don't care how many hours your Dad has, if he is not in the airplane when things go bad it doens't matter. If you are so hot headed as not to appreciate the wisdom that people like me are willing to share maybe you ought to rethink your goals, now you can be offended.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Either way, don't forget you're going to have to go out and do spins. You need an instructional proficiency in spins endorsement before you can take any instructor checkride.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
If you are so hot headed as not to appreciate the wisdom that people like me are willing to share maybe you ought to rethink your goals, now you can be offended.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not hotheaded, I just wouldn't exactly qualify making judgements, assumptions and inferences - without first knowing all the facts - as "wisdom."

If you read my post - I agree with most of your points and stated very clearly that I was not only expecting to, but looking forward to, teaching out of singles - with the one exception of my brother. He's already rated and actually just as good a stick if not better than I am - so I would feel completely safe and confident in instructing him. I only mentioned my father because he is going to be in the aircraft with us as I start instructing my brother and between the two of us I'm pretty sure my brother will learn what he needs to know to get a good start with instrument flying. Instructing someone else is another mattter entirely - on many different levels.

So, I don't really understand the purpose of your second reply other than for you to attack me, put me on the defensive, and thereby save face. If that makes 'ya feel better more power to 'ya. But, that's just my two cents.


ESF - thanks for the heads up!
 

ananoman

New Member
I think you need to relax a little. People have to realize that when they ask a question, the person answering it does not know them or their situation. Based on the limited info provided in your initial post, I think that you received a reasonable answer. That being said, I am going to go out on a limb and make an assumption. You are probably going to want to use your AC to instruct your brother for his instrument rating. If you are going to provide instrument instruction in a multi-engine aircraft, you need your MEI. So I would get the MEI first, then the CFII. Even though you have no teaching experience, you have alot more multi than the average new MEI, so it should be no different than the average person doing their initial CFI-A.

There are quite a few schools that do the MEI as the initial CFI rating because they do not have a complex single. They will do the MEI, the CFII, then the CFI-A in that order. Since only the initial CFI rating has to be done in a complex aircraft, the other 2 can be done in a fixed gear single. The reason the first CFI is more difficult has to do with the required maneuvers (alot more in the single), the required maneuver presentation, and the extensive oral. Just like other additional ratings like your private multi-add, you are not required to revisit all areas of the PTS in the oral when you go for more CFI ratings. The fact that the first rating is usually done with the FAA may or may not be a factor. I went the 141 route, so the only FAA checkride I have ever taken was for the MEI.

I would also recommend that you make sure that whatever you do in your AC is covered by your insurance policy. There may be a difference between receiving instruction in your AC and giving it.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to provide instrument instruction in a multi-engine aircraft, you need your MEI.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he said his brother was rated in category and class. Therefore, he would not need his MEI- just his CFII.
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to provide instrument instruction in a multi-engine aircraft, you need your MEI.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he said his brother was rated in category and class. Therefore, he would not need his MEI- just his CFII.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as he has a multi rating and at least 5 hours in the aircraft to be flown.
 

ananoman

New Member
You might want to read 61.195 Flight Instructor Limitations and Qualifications.

(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating;

You must also have an instrument rating and instrument instructor rating appropriate to the category and class of the aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

You will note that 61.195 does not say "you can give instrument instruction in a multi-engine aircraft without your MEI as long as you have 5 hrs in type", or words to that effect.
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
I refer you to part 61.195 (f) training received in a multilengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered lift which states " A flight Instructor may not give training required for the issuance of of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make, model of multiengine airplane..."

61.195 (c) states that to give instrument instruction, the instructor must have an instrument rating on his or her Flight Instructor Certificate and Pilot Certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of the aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.

So, if the instructor is a CFII and holds a commercial multiengine rating on his pilot certificate he may give instrument training ina multiengine airplane as long as he complies with 61.195 (f) and 61.195 (c).
 
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