CFI Jobs Offer with 2 Year Commitment

K

KevinJH7

Well-Known Member
So here's the deal!

I have two CFI job offers. One is near home with and is a fairly small Part 61 FBO with only a couple aircraft but it does seem fairly busy.

The other is in Poughkeepsie, NY (with several other bases) and is a fairly large Part 141 school with a small affiliation with a college flight program.

Now the weird part is that the place near home is saying they require a 2 year independent contractor commitment. I am probably am okay with this but at the same time if I can get a good CFI job at my college with base pay and benefits in a year I would not be happy about this!

On the flip side, I would have to pay rent etc etc instead of living at home.

I'm not asking for you to make the decision for me but I would like to hear some input regarding the commitment. I find myself thinking who these FBO people think they are paying no base pay, no benefits and thinking they can make somebody commit for 2 years!

Also, after talking to a couple people it seems as though this commitment would not even be enforceable as an independant contractor. Now obviously I am not for upsetting people in the aviation business as it's a small world but it would be interesting to know.

Thanks

Kevin
 
do you think you can live on rent during the winter time? Because I'm sure the Northeast weather is almost the same as the Northwest. You might be only able to log only 10 hours a month.
 
That was the other part of this issue because in NY I'd probably end up coming home after being poor in November!

I'll probably stay at home but I just wanted to get some input as a 2 year commitment that does not offer benefits etc seems scary when you're 22!
 
2 years is a long time to make a commitment, unless you already planned on staying there doing the same thing no matter what. Remember, a LOT can change in that time, even if it doesn't seem like it presently.

Bob
 
Fair amount of FBOs, but very few are hiring right now and DWC just laid off instructors so that probably won't be helping the situation.

I also feel that the FBO cannot enforce the contract. I hope it is simpler than this, but I would think that the contract will not specify an expected amount of hours flown etc (and they sure as hell aren't paying me base pay). So lets say I want out (and again I don't want to upset them but at the same time I have to make a living) then I think I could just not fly and not be in violation of the contract.
 
unclenobby said:
What happens if you break the 2 yr commitment? My guess is nothing. Sounds like a BS to me.
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:yeahthat:As an independent contractor how can they have you sign a contract? As mentioned, sounds like total BS. If you want to take the job do it, don't worry about a some non binding contract.
 
BajtheJino said:
:yeahthat:As an independent contractor how can they have you sign a contract? As mentioned, sounds like total BS. If you want to take the job do it, don't worry about a some non binding contract.
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my thoughts exactly. INDEPENDENT means exactly that, you don't kowtow to them.
 
BajtheJino said:
:yeahthat:As an independent contractor how can they have you sign a contract? As mentioned, sounds like total BS. If you want to take the job do it, don't worry about a some non binding contract.
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That was my thinking but I'd like to be pretty sure about it. I figure, even if it is legally binding, I'd only leave if I had another, significantly better, offer and would not need the reference. Why would they spend money on a lawyer when my leaving would cost them $0? It's not like they're pouring thousands of dollars into my training. I mean DWC had free training for employed instructors and still had no contracts!
 
KevinJH7 said:
That was my thinking but I'd like to be pretty sure about it. I figure, even if it is legally binding, I'd only leave if I had another, significantly better, offer and would not need the reference. Why would they spend money on a lawyer when my leaving would cost them $0? It's not like they're pouring thousands of dollars into my training. I mean DWC had free training for employed instructors and still had no contracts!
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Right, when a company calls to verify employment all they can ask is: did the person work there from then until now and would you rehire. Thats it. Besides any job worth having will hire you for your being qualified and right for the position.
 
Once upon a time, gentlemen agreements had some value.
The integrity and loyalty of todays players took care of that. Some, very few flight schools still see value in someone willing to stick around. It sucks to loose thousands of dollars in business and much more in reputation damage if your instructors are uncommited, with no felt obligation towards the business's needs. There used to be a time when it was pretty sure to be instructing for about 2 years before moving on.

Being a CFI is not just about the CFI. Never has, never truly will be.
 
:yeahthat: to an extent. If you agree you agree. your word should be enough to not to break the contract. On the flip side why have a commitment? Are they spending any money on you for training? Is there like a free MEI or something of the likes in for you for free if you stay? Also what do they say the penalty for breaking contract is, and what is the grounds for the penalty?

I could see a school "ASKING" their instructors to stay for two years. I could see how a dedicated base of instructors would be a good marketing scheme for the school, but that's not really a contract. Is that what they are saying or do they really have you sign a piece of paper?
 
I can't say for sure whether its paper or not but it seems like it may be.

I have no problem staying for 2 years and would like to do so if possible but at the same time I have loans to pay etc and if I'm not doing much flying it seems to be obvious to move on to a better fit. Other than the normal orientation process there's no investment into CFII/MEI so it's not like they'd be losing much in me leaving before the two years is up.

I'm not looking to take advantage/bail on this place but it does seem a little ridiculous if it's in writing.
 
the only way i do contracts is if there is something in it for me, since most compaies are in it for them. for example, my last contract was $50/hr, which got me hired on as an employee eventually. then the work came to an end, and they offered contract work again.

my counter was for $65/hr with a guarantee to $75/hr Nov. 1 2009, 1/2 of all projected work paid up front, the remainder billed net 30.

They didn't bite. But, the fact was that there were solid items in the contract for them AND for me.

If youre just signing a 2 year with no benefit to you (raise, medical, dental or whatever) than youre just screwing yourself.
 
your word should be enough to not to break the contract.
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SJS makes peoples word mean squat, diddledy, nada, zip.
If I ran a flightschool and someone would be extremely hesitant to enter into a contract I would evaluate this as a halfassed attitude. May all be just a way of filtering the worst crapheads out of the system. "Applicant fails to make solid commitment towards instructing. DNH." Thats what I would write...

Contracts exist to establish the basis for them to be considered breached. Simple as that. 90% of them are unenforceable anyways. ;) The way people look at you after you push a piece of paper across the table may tell the Emloyer more about this person than the 78.5 questions...

"Looking at what we discussed today, would you feel comfortable signing this?"
Oh how easy, just lean back and read... perfect closer.
Applicant reads and thinks he/ she can - lets talk further. (The paper is likely signed and disappears)
Applicant declines or asks for time to think (a week) - and "we'll be in touch"
 
Unenforceable and being a thorn in your side are two different things. They can still sue you, and you will definately lose the reference. (for the record , an FBO will give out more information than a large corporation, because they haven't been burned before) If you can find a job that meets your requirements without the agreement then take it. If not look at your priorities. Its basic economics. They have the buying power right now. I personally would not ever sign a 2 year agreement to CFI, although i may still be instructing for another 5 or even more things can change. It may be unenforcable, but don't sign something you have no intention of honoring, ever.... Have some integrity and go somewhere else. Or have them put a garuntee in the contract, so you can get out if you can't feed yourself.
 
:yeahthat:

Have to agree here. If they want a commitment to protect themselves, ask if they'll put something in to protect you. If they don't feel comfortable doing that, then I'd go elsewhere.

And I'd ask for it just like it is..."I understand your contract is to protect your interests, would you mind adding something to protect mine?"
 
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