CFI @ ATP

N

njboeingfan

Well-Known Member
Does ATP have a program that allows you to do just a CFI in a single? I don't have the time to do the whole 2 week program for all 3 ratings. Thanks.
 
If you are thinking about it, read the fine print. Most of the training programs at ATP now have an additional "Fuel Surcharge" in itty bitty print next to the BIG RED PRICE.
 
So. Every single place that I have rented an aircraft charged an hourly rate and also had you pay a fuel surcharge. Been like that for years. Your a pilot. I don't get it. Heck, I sent my mother flowers the other day and they charged me extra for a "Fuel Surcharge."
 
*shrug* on my browser the text was the same size and right next to the price. It wasn't hard to see and it's not hard to believe that it costs a bit more than a couple months ago... I mean... avgas at our airport went up $1.50 a gallon in the last 3 months.
 
Yeah seems pretty obvious to me. 44Driver has a ridiculous history of doing ANYTHING he can to smear ATP. In his over zealous efforts, I think most have come to realize him as a rather unreliable source of anything at all.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
Yeah seems pretty obvious to me. 44Driver has a ridiculous history of doing ANYTHING he can to smear ATP. In his over zealous efforts, I think most have come to realize him as a rather unreliable source of anything at all.
Click to expand...

I'm an unreliable source? Oh, ok, so there isn't a fuel surcharge now in small print next to the price? I must be seeing things. Please explain what I've said about ATP that isn't 100% true??

Here's another piece of information that's public knowledge about ATP. They're being sued right now by the families who lost their loved ones when they had a crash two years ago. Now former instructors are getting calls from attorneys asking them all sorts of questions. Don't believe me? Its public record.
 
It's just the great effort you put in to smear them every chance you get. ZOMG!!!! Fuel Surcharge! Egad! Noone has EVER done that before! Those jerks! Fuel has risen $1.50 in less than a quarter and they have the audacity to do that! ATP must be evil!!!

While the notice about the fuel surcharge is smaller than the price number, it certainly is obvious and readable.

Why not mention that last time fuel went through the roof, ATP did not add a surcharge to any existing program. It was common in the industry to see this at that time though.

You try your best to turn ANYTHING about ATP negative. It makes your motive obvious and you look stupid. For that matter, I usually don't respond to anything you write because you do the job all by yourself. This time I guess I am in the mood for once.
 
44Driver said:
I'm an unreliable source? Oh, ok, so there isn't a fuel surcharge now in small print next to the price? I must be seeing things. Please explain what I've said about ATP that isn't 100% true??

Here's another piece of information that's public knowledge about ATP. They're being sued right now by the families who lost their loved ones when they had a crash two years ago. Now former instructors are getting calls from attorneys asking them all sorts of questions. Don't believe me? Its public record.
Click to expand...

I only stated that when I looked it was in similarly sized print (not "small print"). It's certainly not a surprise since I don't expect ATP to eat the extra cost of fuel.

They're getting sued over a crash? My god, that never happens :P
 
Here's one I never could figure out. How is it that ATP's CFI's are considered independent contractors for tax reasons? I mean, if you look at the IRS requirements to be an independent contractor, it's pretty specific, and it's always been hard for me to believe that ATP has never been challenged on this. Just for the record, I'll list the independent contractor rules:

http://www.independent-consulting-bootcamp.com/independent-contractor-test.html

You can follow the link for the whole thing. But I'll draw your attention now to item 4:

"4. Training
Provision and funding of training by the client business indicates employee status."

In other words, you have to pay for your own training.

Now I will draw your attention to ATP's website:

http://www.atpflightschool.com/jobs/

"ATP invests approximately $5,000 into your flight proficiency to ensure you meet the high standards expected of an ATP flight instructor."

In other words, ATP is paying for your training as a way to entice you to work there.

ATP CFI's are clearly NOT independent contractors per the IRS rules.
 
DE727UPS said:
Here's one I never could figure out. How is it that ATP's CFI's are considered independent contractors for tax reasons? I mean, if you look at the IRS requirements to be an independent contractor, it's pretty specific, and it's always been hard for me to believe that ATP has never been challenged on this. Just for the record, I'll list the independent contractor rules:

http://www.independent-consulting-bootcamp.com/independent-contractor-test.html

You can follow the link for the whole thing. But I'll draw your attention now to item 4:

"4. Training
Provision and funding of training by the client business indicates employee status."

In other words, you have to pay for your own training.

Now I will draw your attention to ATP's website:

http://www.atpflightschool.com/jobs/

"ATP invests approximately $5,000 into your flight proficiency to ensure you meet the high standards expected of an ATP flight instructor."

In other words, ATP is paying for your training as a way to entice you to work there.

ATP CFI's are clearly NOT independent contractors per the IRS rules.
Click to expand...
They were also requiring 9-5 hours (regardless of student schedules) at the location I taught at after I left in 2007 according to some former students.
 
Nice job avoiding the question. What have I ever said about ATP that isn't 100% true? You still can't answer. You're right, I don't like the company. I just tell it like it is though. You know what makes you look stupid Loadmaster? The fact that you spell like a 5th grader.

I never worked at ATP, but when fuel prices went up last time in 2008 they didn't use a "surcharge". That's correct. They just jacked the price of the ACPP up to 54,990. Hey, at least that was with housing though.

They play the "independent contractor" game because they know that the instructors are too deep in debt to make waves about being employees and risk being fired. Its obvious that the instructors don't fit the criteria for "independent contractor". Its sad that ATP exploits people like that.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
It's just the great effort you put in to smear them every chance you get. ZOMG!!!! Fuel Surcharge! Egad! Noone has EVER done that before! Those jerks! Fuel has risen $1.50 in less than a quarter and they have the audacity to do that! ATP must be evil!!!

While the notice about the fuel surcharge is smaller than the price number, it certainly is obvious and readable.

Why not mention that last time fuel went through the roof, ATP did not add a surcharge to any existing program. It was common in the industry to see this at that time though.

You try your best to turn ANYTHING about ATP negative. It makes your motive obvious and you look stupid. For that matter, I usually don't respond to anything you write because you do the job all by yourself. This time I guess I am in the mood for once.
Click to expand...

Well played sir...well played.
 
44Driver said:
Nice job avoiding the question. What have I ever said about ATP that isn't 100% true? You still can't answer. You're right, I don't like the company. I just tell it like it is though. You know what makes you look stupid Loadmaster? The fact that you spell like a 5th grader.

I never worked at ATP, but when fuel prices went up last time in 2008 they didn't use a "surcharge". That's correct. They just jacked the price of the ACPP up to 54,990. Hey, at least that was with housing though.

They play the "independent contractor" game because they know that the instructors are too deep in debt to make waves about being employees and risk being fired. Its obvious that the instructors don't fit the criteria for "independent contractor". Its sad that ATP exploits people like that.
Click to expand...

Can we stop caring about this whole discussion..? Also, Loadmaster, nice play.

All I see is ATP instructors going to airlines like crazy.. Thats the point of the company. Also, flight training costs money and the aviation industry must be suited for change. So everyone who is saying negative things about ATP's price decisions, you obviously have no realistic image in your head about this industry as a whole.
 
DE727UPS said:
Here's one I never could figure out. How is it that ATP's CFI's are considered independent contractors for tax reasons? I mean, if you look at the IRS requirements to be an independent contractor, it's pretty specific, and it's always been hard for me to believe that ATP has never been challenged on this. Just for the record, I'll list the independent contractor rules:

http://www.independent-consulting-bootcamp.com/independent-contractor-test.html

You can follow the link for the whole thing. But I'll draw your attention now to item 4:

"4. Training
Provision and funding of training by the client business indicates employee status."

In other words, you have to pay for your own training.

Now I will draw your attention to ATP's website:

http://www.atpflightschool.com/jobs/

"ATP invests approximately $5,000 into your flight proficiency to ensure you meet the high standards expected of an ATP flight instructor."

In other words, ATP is paying for your training as a way to entice you to work there.

ATP CFI's are clearly NOT independent contractors per the IRS rules.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should bring up your concerns with the IRS. I'm pretty tired of the same old argument on here and, given the number of years ATP has operated this way, I can't imagine why the IRS hasn't swarmed the office. Unless you're wrong that is. Hmmmm...
 
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