Cessna to Outsource Jet Manufacturing to China

FloridaLarry said:
Cessna already has the Skycatcher (AKA Cessna 162) mostly built in China but assembled in Independence.

These 2 agreements are essentially agree to negotiate deals. Not necessarily faits accompli. But probably not great news.

Could even be a pre-negotations w/ unions ploy.
Click to expand...

Might just be. However from a financial stand point, I don't think anyone can blame ANY COMPANY for trying to build thier product at a lower cost. If the cost of Union wages/benefits or cost of electricity or water or industiral improvements, etc doesn't make financial sense, then a Company should look at other options.

P.S. As for the SkyCatcher, fixed it for you
 
DustOff:

Agreed. Quality being equal (can be, but is it?) cost, including delivery $$ (China's a l-o-n-g way!) and future issues, is paramount. Answering to the stockholders only, it's a question of costs. But a good corporation looks at ALL costs. Is today's 162 assembler going to be next year's Citation master mechanic?

However, as a corporate citizen of its municipality & country, even a corporation has a duty to balance issues of cost, longer-term benefit, investment in the future of the company, and many more issues.

The short-term look - what have the last quarter's results been - has led to w-a-a-y too many quick-buck decision that do come home to haunt later on. Airframe mfgrs and air carriers!
 
Not just aviation; America's corporate culture has become myopic to the extreme, focused on short-term profits above all else, and it's not stopping any time soon. Directors of corporations are generally held liable to their shareholders to make decisions in the interest of profitability alone.

I don't have a problem with manufacturing things in other countries, or outsourcing development or QA or call centers or anything else ... so long as it's taxed in such a way that it's no more profitable to do that than to do it in the US.

Protectionist? Absolutely. I've been to China, and I don't want to live like they live. Why should a capitalist country like America be required to compete with "corporations" in a communist country, where the execs are party members and all the capitalism is just a façade, just like all the glitz and glamor and "high-tech" that they show off? Yes, that's a problematic viewpoint, but frankly, the problem of globalization is far more complex than most people realize. People want simple. Simple arguments, simple canned responses, simple things to repeat back and forth so they can "debate" without actually having to know or think about anything.

If you want to reduce it to simple, howabout this: The process of offshoring is effectively shifting the gathering of wealth from creation to pure investment and management. When that's the dominant method of making money, you have at best a stagnant economy ... but we know it's not stagnant, because we're purchasing goods made elsewhere and returning money, raw materials, debt and other considerations.
Even "ideas", which we boast as what we do best, are going away, slipping off in the night as the "ideas" we create become higher level, meta, and then pure nonsense.

Yes, we're still making money by having "the grunt work" done elsewhere, then repackaging and re-selling the finished product, but we're also investing all of our tooling in countries with unequal relationships, and putting the "business end" of all of our manufacturing (digital, hardware, big iron, aviation, electronics, you name it) elsewhere. When all we retain of the entire process is the legal agreement with a "partner" in another country that's unlikely to be honored if they decide not to... we have nothing. Management is NOT an industry.

... er, anyway... sorry for the long-winded spiel. I don't want to live in a US with the living standards of China, and thus I don't want to compete with China on their terms.

-Fox
*Pant*
 
The idea that the US no longer produces anything is a myth. The dollar value of US manufacturing output has pretty much increased every year since the mid 1970s except for small decreases during recessions and a sharp decrease between 2007-2009.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
I'd be more worried about how much longer your beloved Beech will be around to MAKE planes. If they keep reincarnating crappy biz jets, taking 14 years to certify new ones, and offering piss poor customer "service", they won't last.
Click to expand...
Looking at this thread again, I see its Cessna Jet. My reference to beech was Barons, Bonanza, King air etc.
 
Blackhawk said:
The idea that the US no longer produces anything is a myth. The dollar value of US manufacturing output has pretty much increased every year since the mid 1970s except for small decreases during recessions and a sharp decrease between 2007-2009.
Click to expand...
The dollar value means nothing when fewer and fewer jobs are being provided by that production. I saw an article that made reference to that and just had to laugh, pure spin.

Hopefully this will make some more folks here pay attention to what they buy, and to buy domestically. Here's some of the things around my house:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/are-we-back-in-a-recession.126443/page-3#post-1753194
 
wheelsup said:
The dollar value means nothing when fewer and fewer jobs are being provided by that production. I saw an article that made reference to that and just had to laugh, pure spin.
Click to expand...
It's called productivity. We can get a bunch of construction jobs- just do what Mao did and give everyone spoons instead of shovels. Then we will need thousands of workers in construction. Prohibit farmers from using more productive farming methods- then we can shove workers onto collective farms and decrease unemployment there as well. While we're at it let's pull out all the GPS, VORs and NDBs then we will need navigators again in airplanes. Much better. And shut down your computer. Do you know how many typists you are putting out of work??? Man... how much did I spend on typists in college??? Wasted beer money. And disconnect your cell phone. You are putting operators out of work. If you are using a phone company other than AT&T shame on you. Shame. Do you know how many operators have been put out of work since AT&T was broken up? Man I LONG for the days when I had to call an operator for a long distance call. And when my Dad first switched to MCI it was really cool how he had to first dial a 1-800 number, then a code then the number he wanted to call using an operator. Man we need those days back.
Oh- and I'm sure you are not using an ATM, right? Do you know how many people are being put out of work by ATM machines??? Just ask Obama and he will tell you. Need money on the weekend? Hope there are no blue laws in your town so you can cash a check at a liquor store. That was the only place to get cash on a Saturday or Sunday.
If you are washing your own laundry shame on you. Do you know how many poor women you are putting put of work??? Sorry... Men too. Can't be sexist about the laundry.
Let's not forget crappy cars. We need to bring back the crappy cars of the mid 70's so mechanics can be put back to work.
Oh, and turn off your lights. Do you know how many candle makers have lost their jobs in the last 150 years??? Shame on you for depriving their children of food.
Speaking of cars... we need to ban them. Their production has put countless people out of work- from blacksmiths, to stables, to vets, to the people who have to shovel the crap off the streets, to doctors who don't have to care for people infected by animal crap. Shame on you. Sell your car right away and get a horse.
That way we won't need oil and we can return to whaling for oil for our lamps. Just think of the employment boom- people to man the ships. People to build the ships, forestry...
 
Blackhawk said:
It's called productivity
Click to expand...

I'll be honest I stopped reading after that. Why?

As Americans have become more productive than ever, that is not translating to increased wages. In fact, we are seeing falling wages throughout the manufacturing industry.

What is increasing? Corporate profits. Is that trickling down to the worker bees here in the US? No.

Some other interesting things. Since 2000, when outsourcing began in earnest, domestic production switched from making every day items to being almost directly tied to the military industrial complex:

armsproductions.JPG


While the dollar value may be high for the products we produce, VERY LITTLE is used by the collective masses, and instead the profit goes to major corporations such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc. in the form of new equipment.

That being said, in the big scheme of things, it matters not what we make here. The most important figure is our trade balance. Not sure what it is now. Is was hovering at roughly $600/billion a year, half of that oil, and half of that again with China (25% of deficit). You fix the trade balance you can fix our country.
 
Good news! China State Aircraft Manufactorium has announced a new business series of all-indiginous designed and manufactured business jets... the Vitatation!
 
Just compare average wages to CEO compensation. The idea that executives get rewarded while their companies crash & burn is absurd.

Them's the bums!
 
Blackhawk said:
I'll be honest I stopped reading after that.
Click to expand...
That's too bad you missed important info. Plus I at least had the courtesy to explain why.

Your productivity rant, while important, doesn't mean squat for US jobs and our trade balance. Billions of $$ of product has been shipped overseas to be made there even as our productivity has increased.

If we're so productive, why isn't the product produced here in the US? Look at what Cessna is doing. Shipping production overseas, and not only domestic Chinese production (an important point due to Chinese import laws), but all of it.

In addition, China is now gearing up and productivity is increasing quickly, which means our once high productivity gains won't mean nearly as much in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top