Cessna hits SUV on student's first solo landing

Clearly that is not a legal stop sign. A cop couldn't ticket you for not stopping because the sign painted on the road with a paint roller.

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Not true. Houses are mixed with the hangars. Anyone exiting from I35 could make a wrong turn and cross the end of the runway. Lot of planes no taxiways, just streets which double as taxiways.

The runway markings are non-standard and the wrong color. There is no airport management here. This airport is an accident waiting to happen.

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Looking at the picture it seems to me that there is way enough space to land while something is on that road, if you are on the right path...the problem is that many pilots take the displaced threshold as the runway part they aim for, they just make sure not to put the wheels down before the actual threshold. At my base airport we have a main road about as close as that, but there is not displaced threshold, just grass, nobody has ever got too close to hit a car.
 
Sometimes it takes a student a while to get over a traumatic incident too. Last month I finished up a PPL for a guy who quit flying as a student pilot over 12 years ago after his instructor was killed while flying with another student. The guy's a great stick and will go far with whatever he chooses to do with flying. He's now talking about maybe even pursuing his Com and CFI eventually. Sometimes as a student, the reality of what we are doing isn't fully understood, and when something breaks our romantic view of flying it takes a while before we're able to move on... just part of processing, nothing wrong with that.

he needs to get back in the air ASAP, I had a pretty bad crash and that`s what has helped me the most....
 
Looking at the picture it seems to me that there is way enough space to land while something is on that road, if you are on the right path...the problem is that many pilots take the displaced threshold as the runway part they aim for, they just make sure not to put the wheels down before the actual threshold. At my base airport we have a main road about as close as that, but there is not displaced threshold, just grass, nobody has ever got too close to hit a car.
Since "nonstandard" would be very charitably describing the runway's markings, I can't tell you what he should have been aiming for without actually looking closer at the airport.
 
I'm really glad you people that say it was the SUVs fault don't fly out of the airport at which I learned to fly. 2300' runway, with a 135' displaced threshold, and a major public highway (with lots of tractor trailer traffic) 308' from the runway. Hmm...almost identical setup to 52F, yet we don't have 172s shattering side windows with nosewheels.
 
Since "nonstandard" would be very charitably describing the runway's markings, I can't tell you what he should have been aiming for without actually looking closer at the airport.

Probably the big 1 7 painted on the pavement about 400' south of the beginning of the pavement.
 
I wonder if the student's instructor got sued and/or got a 709 ride from the Feds over this?
 
I'll leave legal liability up to a jury, but I'd say that the CFI was negligent in selecting that airport for student training. With so many obvious problems (improper RWY markings, uncontrolled private road adjacent to threshold, inadequate signage for motorists, etc.), why in the world would someone permit primary student training at such an airport?

Part of an instructor's job is to minimize threats to his student, and this airport is a disaster.
 
I'll leave legal liability up to a jury, but I'd say that the CFI was negligent in selecting that airport for student training. With so many obvious problems (improper RWY markings, uncontrolled private road adjacent to threshold, inadequate signage for motorists, etc.), why in the world would someone permit primary student training at such an airport?

Part of an instructor's job is to minimize threats to his student, and this airport is a disaster.

I just can't help but to think that the concept of a displaced threshold was omitted from the lessons leading up to this accident. Either that, or the student was taught that they're no big deal and to just land on it anyway. I mean, the instructor DID say that his student landed it just like a professional pilot on this attempt.
 
I wonder if the student's instructor got sued and/or got a 709 ride from the Feds over this?
Yea. Instructors nightmare. No matter whos fault it is.

Was the SP to low. Yes. But what does the pilot legally have to do? Touchdown beyond the displaced threshold. The 172 could have stretched it out in ground effect from this glide path to make a "legal" landing.

I HIGHLY doubt the SP ever saw the car / new what happened intill after the airplane came to a stop. Its a solo flight! Im sure he was just looking down the runway trying to land the darn thing.

The driver of the car ran some sort of stop marking. So that is the only person that I see immediately at fault here.

Unfortunately I think all will lose in the end. Student / instructor / driver / airport management - owner / GA in general once the lawyers / FAA get in on this. Its sad really, goodluck to all involved. Glad nobody was seriously injured.
 
Yea. Instructors nightmare. No matter whos fault it is.

Was the SP to low. Yes. But what does the pilot legally have to do? Touchdown beyond the displaced threshold. The 172 could have stretched it out in ground effect from this glide path to make a "legal" landing.

I HIGHLY doubt the SP ever saw the car / new what happened intill after the airplane came to a stop. Its a solo flight! Im sure he was just looking down the runway trying to land the darn thing.

The driver of the car ran some sort of stop marking. So that is the only person that I see immediately at fault here.

Unfortunately I think all will lose in the end. Student / instructor / driver / airport management - owner / GA in general once the lawyers / FAA get in on this. Its sad really, goodluck to all involved. Glad nobody was seriously injured.
Only one problem...that stop marking was pretty much painted on with side walk chalk. If the airport people were truley serious about this rule, you would think they would put in the extra effort to ensure motorists are properly alerted...
 
It's a shame, but also a miracle no one was seriously hurt. The student pilot needs to get back in the air and learn from his mistakes, he shouldn't let this define him as a pilot.

The people in the car were reckless, stupid, and irritating with regard to their post accident remarks. As an instructor it's terrifying, I will make sure my students see this and they can understand why I make them practice go arounds so often. Last year I had an airport security car cross the runway while I was on short final, I executed a go around because even though there was a chance he would be out of the way by the time I was there the chance that he wouldn't was also good. It showed my student that I practice what I preach, if something happens while you are on final that makes you feel a little uncomfortable, go around and come back when it's better.
 
Only one problem...that stop marking was pretty much painted on with side walk chalk. If the airport people were truley serious about this rule, you would think they would put in the extra effort to ensure motorists are properly alerted...

This is the argument the drivers attorneys will undoubtedly make. Unfortunately it will be ugly for all parties involved.
 
Only one problem...that stop marking was pretty much painted on with side walk chalk. If the airport people were truley serious about this rule, you would think they would put in the extra effort to ensure motorists are properly alerted...
Probably had stop signs before but student pilots hit them on final...... ;)
Aren't stop signs taller than an SUV?
 
Airport Management is surely out over the legal edge here. The shot of the runway really does not show displaced threshold markings adequately. Furthermore, there should have been clear and legible signs warning vehicles of the danger. There is plenty of blame to go around, but I would bet (since lawyers have a way of going after the biggest fish) the airport stands the most to lose.
 
First, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was rubbed the wrong way by that melodramatic woman in the car, playing the victim in the interview and the recording.

Second, distance from the road to the numbers is ~466 ft. Assuming a generously flat ~3.8 degree glideslope, 466*tan(3.8) = 31 ft. Drop this to a 3 degree glideslope and you get 24 ft over the road. (Edit: Airnav says the VASI is a 4.5 degree glidepath, so 466*tan(4.5) = 36 ft. Not much of a difference.)

As a private pilot, it's a no brainer... use short/soft over a 50 ft obstacle landing technique, come in at a steeper angle than a standard 3 degree glideslope with full flaps and it's all good. But remembering back to being a student pilot on my first solo, while I knew what a displaced threshold was and to try and land past it on the numbers, I certainly hadn't seen short/soft field technique over obstacles yet. From the video he definitely let the airplane get low and behind the power curve, but hey... he was only 30 ft too low... ;)

Realistically this is a calculated risk with flight training anywhere, but I wonder if there are some instructional attitudes at this particular airport that are partly to blame (i.e. ignoring the VASI, or getting as low as you want over the displaced threshold and stretching the glide to the numbers). Since there's no permanent obstacle at the end of the runway (just cars which may or may not be there), the fact that student pilots should be flying every approach over that imaginary obstacle may be getting lost in translation.

But like TFaudree_ERAU, I don't see anything really dangerous about this airport compared to others. During my training my CFI took me into an airport in the wine country of Sonoma, CA called Sonoma Skypark (0Q9). The runway is 2480 ft x 40 ft, has 15 ft trees at the approach end (to runway 26) with a 237 ft displaced threshold, and 60 ft trees at the departure end. My instructor used to work at this airport and soloed plenty of students from it.

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(In this pic it looks like some of the departure end trees were removed. Last time I was there, there were more! :) )
(Edit: BEEF SUPREME might recognize this field too haha.)

Another similar airport up in northern CA is Lakeport-Lampson (1O2), which has a county highway with frequent semi truck traffic less than 400 ft from the numbers. It also gets extra cool points for having a freakin mountain at the departure end of the runway. This was one of my first solo cross country destinations as a student pilot, and needless to say the mountain looked more intimidating in person than it did on the sectional.

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Check out the white and red markings prior to the chevrons saying "Look out! This is a highway!"

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I've flown into this airport before though I can't recall that road being there as I was landing. I do remember it being a small narrow short runway. However this is what the view is as one is turning in on the road, I can't say that average people would realize something special is going on here pertaining to you might become an obstruction to the field ops. At the same time I totally agree the whole picture is not being presented as this guy would not be here if he weren't a pilot or had something to do with flying and knowing the runway is right there.

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