"Cessna Fights Back On Private-Jet Trend" WSJ article

[killbilly]

Owned.

Not really.

Look - if a company is mis-managed and failing miserably, it's likely the company would be financially strapped with or without a private jet. Boris' point is that a lot of companies have mis-used their assets - and yeah, some of these clowns should be taken to the woodshed. I'll be standing there with a 2x4 and some swing lube.

However - the opposing argument in this thread - which I support - stipulates that the economics of operating corporate aircraft are quite viable, and that, I think, is the point of Cessna's marketing piece, although they probably could have re-focused the copy a bit.

I think most of us probably agree with Boris in principle, but the premise of "these certain companies are failing, getting bailed out, so let's do away with private jets altogether" is disingenuous at worst, intellectually lazy at best.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

I used to work for a company based in Ft Lauderdale. We had a factory in Tupelo, Mississippi. It took the better part of a day if our people had to take the airlines up there, so in order for them to get any work done, they would have to spend a night there. A quick look on Orbitz showed around $580 a person travelling next monday. We commonly flew 8 people up there, so 8 x 580=$4640. We'd also need 8 hotel rooms, a low estimate is $100 a night, so add another $800 on there bringing the total to $5440. I bet between the 8 of them there would be $300 worth of food eaten. Our total is now $5740. Thats without taking any productivity calulations into consideration. I can tell you for a fact that the people we flew got alot of work done that they wouldn't have been able to do stuck in the back of an RJ. And we weren't flying 8 CEO's, we were flying middle management.

Some companies don't need an airplane, other companies wouldn't be able to function without one. But between the airlines, media and the hypocrites in Washington, corporate airplanes will always be flown for fat cats in a hurry to get to their golf game, clogging up the airways.

 

[Sprint100]

But the work that you are doing on your laptop can be done anywhere. People use aircraft because they need to be in a specific location to do some particular business. If they could do it on a computer there wouldn't be any need to travel at all.

Since I work very closely with those execs that take the private jet, I can assure you that half the time they DON'T need to be there

 

[granlistillo]

Not anymore.

ehm,
Yea verily. I wish what you claim was true. But alas, there are many 5 million + execs out there.
Darren,
Are you an online stalker? The voice of contrariety to everything I say??

 

[WacoFan]

I want them to go out of business if they are incapable of making money, yes. Do we all understand that we're talking about a de facto nationalization of the banks and car companies? Except it's worse than that, because there's no oversight. Sure, if a crack team of government bean-counters go over the books and determine that, having made the mistake of bailing out these criminals, we need to give them a clapped out citation with shag carpeting and a mildew stench so they won't steal even more of our money, fine. But I'm not just taking their word for it. I can't conceive of how anyone with an IQ in the triple digits has been convinced that these swine are to be trusted. I wouldn't let these idiots run a lemonade stand without someone keeping a sharp eye on the cashbox.

Perhaps the best thing I have ever read (and I have read a lot). Not just "best thing" on JC...best thing anywhere. Right on.

And, I am in complete agreement with the pro-biz av people. But, I am in complete agreement with Boris as well. Clapped out Citation with a mildew smell. F'in A!

 

[WacoFan]

Absolutely agree with all except the bolded. Change it to "It's why people who work in sales are appropriately compensated," and I'd say that was a good post!

No no Ian...salesmen are all gladhanders with no idea of anything except being like Herb Tarlek and making commisions. You are wrong my friend!

 

[ricecakecm]

People mention that these companies are using our tax dollars to fly their business airplanes. Has anybody mentioned the fleet of Boeings, Gulfstreams, and Lears that the government uses our tax dollars to fly around on? Does Nancy Pelosi really need a 757 to go back to SFO?

 

[killbilly]

No no Ian...salesmen are all gladhanders with no idea of anything except being like Herb Tarlek and making commisions. You are wrong my friend!

I know you meant this in jest....

The hardest job I've ever had was being a regional sales manager. It was unbelieveable - at the time - how hard I had to work to get close to a low six-figure salary. I did it, but it cost me a lot.

I went back to the engineering side and I've been happy. I make less money, to be sure, but I also have a much better QoL.

 

[WacoFan]

I know you meant this in jest....

The hardest job I've ever had was being a regional sales manager. It was unbelieveable - at the time - how hard I had to work to get close to a low six-figure salary. I did it, but it cost me a lot.

I went back to the engineering side and I've been happy. I make less money, to be sure, but I also have a much better QoL.

Ian and I are both professional hucksters, so yes, I had tongue firmly in cheeck! And a sales job is a killer if you do it right - sounds like you did it right. I went to a non-sales position once, after being in sales awhile, and it was damn near relaxing.

 

[Ian_J]

No no Ian...salesmen are all gladhanders with no idea of anything except being like Herb Tarlek and making commisions. You are wrong my friend!

Admittedly, I had to look up "Herb Tarlek." I did watch WKRP as a kid, but it's amazing you remembered that guy's name from a show on so long ago. Interestingly, there's a ridiculously long wiki page about him!

 

[darrenf]

ehm,
Yea verily. I wish what you claim was true. But alas, there are many 5 million + execs out there.
Darren,
Are you an online stalker? The voice of contrariety to everything I say??

With this post I think this is the 3rd time I have ever responded to you.

 

[Alchemy]

I think anyone who wants a private jet and has the money should be able to own one. I also don't think the US government should be bailing out any businesses. In addition, I don't think they should tax us the point where they have the cash to burn on these bailouts (apparantly they'll still bail them out if they don't), but I digress.....

To me, when a company needs to be bailed out by the government, they no longer have the money to afford a private jet.

Maybe you can still have a private plane if you make a solid case that it will really be more economical than airlining your people everywhere. If so, the plane should probably be a big kingair or a saab outfitted in an airline seating config like intel(?) used to have. If you want your private jets, feel free to reject the gov't cheese, then you can go to town, I say! Otherwise, you shouldn't even be taking an airline.....how about amtrak or greyhound.

If the big "talented" execs don't like it, then they should take a hike. How much worse could the next guy do than bankruptcy and gov't-nipple-sucking. But like I said, if you aren't on the government payroll, buy a dozen GLEX's for all I care.

My worthless 2 cents.

 

[Xcaliber]

Maybe you can still have a private plane if you make a solid case that it will really be more economical than airlining your people everywhere. If so, the plane should probably be a big kingair or a saab outfitted in an airline seating config like intel(?) used to have. If you want your private jets, feel free to reject the gov't cheese, then you can go to town, I say! Otherwise, you shouldn't even be taking an airline.....how about amtrak or greyhound.

Which actually brings us back to the initial point of this thread. If you look at their posters, Cessna is trying to get people to look at their aircraft, and make sure it meets their mission. Which, for Cessna, makes a lot of sense, considering they have aircraft that can support just about any mission except the ultra-long-range routes.

 

[killbilly]

Ian and I are both professional hucksters, so yes, I had tongue firmly in cheeck! And a sales job is a killer if you do it right - sounds like you did it right. I went to a non-sales position once, after being in sales awhile, and it was damn near relaxing.

Well, it was my first "real" sales job. I learned much later on that I would have done a lot better if I'd had a real product. Sadly, I was selling a lot of vaporware and didn't know it.

I'm a sales engineer now, which means I get both the best and worst of both worlds, but they often cancel each other out. There's less money on the comp plan at quota, but there's also less pain and abuse.

 

[granlistillo]

With this post I think this is the 3rd time I have ever responded to you.

Sorry,
It doesn't sound so clever today. My apologies.

 

[Approach Control]

Why do threads always have to end in "defeat?" Why not just debate the pros and cons and leave it at that?

Anyway, as one who has done the "financial" comparisons (only) of having either a NetJet or Flight Options "card" or "account" -vs- my own "private jet," I can tell you that the bottom line will be determined by how many hours you schedule to be in the air and how much you value your business AND personal time. What you fly, and the type of fractional account you have, also plays a very big role in determining the financial leverage you may or may not get.

I'll be taking delivery of a jet, not only because I think it is cool, but mostly because my financial analysis tells me that I'd also be saving money. The savings in money not only comes from being able to tailor a flight around my schedule, but there is also real money savings in not wasting time doing things that I routinely have to do while flying 121.

Right now, I have a lot of experience as a former world wide business traveler, so I know what to expect when trying to conduct business remotely using a commercial carrier. The money that I have lost because of canceled flights, getting bumped off a flight, not being able to get a flight [when I needed it], missing a flight and not being able to get re-directed because the airline told me "sorry, our gate is closed," or simply because mechanical problems requiring everybody to off-board at the gate; has been very noteworthy.

Each time, I sat there asking myself: What would life be like if I could fly like that guy over there getting into that nice G4? Hmmmm. Does he have security hassles like I do? Is he boarded and then off-boarded routinely? Does he get bumped form his flight often? Is he ever told that he cannot fly when it needs to? Hmmmm. Let me look into this "private jet" thing. [or, something like that]

If the public fully understood the total investment of capital, blood, sweat and tears that went into brining a new aircraft design through the FAA Certification process, they would understand why the jets cost so much. If the average non-business flyer fully understood what it was like to have to be in four (4) different cities in three (3) days and still make it home in time for the dinner that was promised to the Wife by Friday, then they might understand why "private jets" are important to some, and absolutely necessary to others.

I know some people who simply flat out could not conduct their business each year, if it were not for some kind of "private jet" access and the maximum flexibility that it affords them.

I love the major airlines and the regionals, but at some point you reach a level where you need to constantly get there, yesterday. And, until somebody soaks billions into teleportation technology, the "private jet" is one of the best, pound for pound, "get there yesterday" modes of transportation that I know.

Frankly, I can't wait!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Guess business aircraft are ok if the GOVERNMENT needs to get something done in a hurry and can't wait for the airlines...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House has provided the use of a government airplane to a key Democratic senator in order to ensure the availability of what may prove to be the deciding 60th vote in favor of the $787 billion economic stimulus package.

Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, has returned to his home state to attend a wake for his 88-year-old mother, who died February 2 from complications from leukemia. At the end of the wake, Brown will be flown from Mansfield, Ohio, to Andrews Air Force Base.
After he casts his vote, he will return to Ohio for his mother's funeral early Saturday.
The plane is being provided by the White House, Brown's office said, because the vote is considered "official business," and there are no commercial flights available that would allow him to cast the vote and return to Ohio for his mother's funeral Saturday morning.
A White House official refused to provide a cost estimate for the military plane,
but acknowledged "it will be a higher cost than if he were flying commercial."
The official said it is a "small government plane."

"Taking immediate action to save or create 3.5 million jobs and get America's economy moving again is a top priority for Ohio and the nation," said the White House official. "Given that no commercial flights were available that would allow Sen. Brown to make the vote and to attend services memorializing his mother, the administration provided government transportation to ensure that he could do so."

While the final Senate vote on the stimulus plan began at 5:30 p.m. ET, senators are expected to be allowed to vote until after 10:30 p.m., giving Brown enough time to return to the Capitol.