Cessna 402C operating costs?

bucksmith

bucksmith

Did you lock the doors?
Hey folks, trying to help the bosses...
Could somebody PM me if you could access an operating cost report with est fixed and variable costs for a C402C, similar to C&D?
We would gladly repay your generosity with the beverage of your choice when we get into the same neighborhood!
Thanks for the help!
 
Roger Roger said:
This whole thread got kind of ridiculous.
How much does it cost to operate a 402?
I dunno, let's ask the people that operate them.
Naw, that's a dumb idea.
Uh...ok?
Of course 9K has greater efficiencies due to knowing the airplanes. But their planes are also higher time and fly A LOT and if you factor in the money they throw into structural restoration I bet it all comes out in the wash.
When I want to know something about a Navajo, I don't call my buddy that works for a company that flies one of them, I call Warbelows because they probably know more about keeping Navajos healthy than anyone else out there.
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That's pretty much what I said, save for the fact that it'll probably cost a little more for the average Joe since they lack infrastructure that someone who only has one to operate does. Jesus, you guys can be so damn sensitive.

P.S. You went and got all butt hurt because someone said
"Yeah, check with them, but understand it may cost you a little more to operate one than it does them."
 
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What it costs 9k to operate a 402 won't be even remotely close to what it will cost a flight department flying a couple hundred hours per year. Want info on the airframe? Sure, see if they'll help out. How much does it cost to fly them? That's like asking UPS how much it costs to own a box truck.
 
milleR said:
What it costs 9k to operate a 402 won't be even remotely close to what it will cost a flight department flying a couple hundred hours per year. Want info on the airframe? Sure, see if they'll help out. How much does it cost to fly them? That's like asking UPS how much it costs to own a box truck.
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You shouldn't look at it like that. I've seen "what does it cost to own this airplane a year" end up in more than one person out of a job after the owner figures out it's way more expensive than he thought it was going to be, because he used it more than he projected, and promptly sold.

Fixed costs per month = X
Hourly costs = X
 
mshunter said:
You shouldn't look at it like that. I've seen "what does it cost to own this airplane a year" end up in more than one person out of a job after the owner figures out it's way more expensive than he thought it was going to be, because he used it more than he projected, and promptly sold.

Fixed costs per month = X
Hourly costs = X
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I don't know what you mean by this. A carrier flying scheduled service (much less one that is considered the foremost expert on the mx) won't have the first thing in common with a corporate flight department when it comes to operating cost. Do you think Donald Trump has the same operating cost on his 757 as Delta? My point is this, Cape Air could very well have an operating cost per hour as low as $200, but you will never, ever match that with your own 402C even if you flew 1000 hours per year. It's all about economies of scale.
 
milleR said:
I don't know what you mean by this. A carrier flying scheduled service (much less one that is considered the foremost expert on the mx) won't have the first thing in common with a corporate flight department when it comes to operating cost. Do you think Donald Trump has the same operating cost on his 757 as Delta? My point is this, Cape Air could very well have an operating cost per hour as low as $200, but you will never, ever match that with your own 402C even if you flew 1000 hours per year. It's all about economies of scale.
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Why do you think I said that it's a good starting point, but they will be able to do it cheaper. This whole thread is one giant circle jerk.
 
mshunter said:
Why do you think I said that it's a good starting point, but they will be able to do it cheaper. This whole thread is one giant circle jerk.
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Can't say this is the first time something I've started has gone the way of the circle jerk. I just try not let it get to me...
Thanks for all the help guys. I was hoping to find someone with a c&d subscription to punch out the report, as they will not sell just one aircrafts worth. I suppose we need to call a broker if I can't find it here.
 
mshunter said:
Why do you think I said that it's a good starting point, but they will be able to do it cheaper. This whole thread is one giant circle jerk.
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But it's not a good starting point. The fundamental cost basis, both fixed and variable won't even be close.
 
bucksmith said:
Can't say this is the first time something I've started has gone the way of the circle jerk. I just try not let it get to me...
Thanks for all the help guys. I was hoping to find someone with a c&d subscription to punch out the report, as they will not sell just one aircrafts worth. I suppose we need to call a broker if I can't find it here.
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Have you called Jerry Temple Aviation? They should be able to give you a good idea on operating costs outside your fixed expenses such as hangar, insurance and pilots. It's also worth joining Twin Cessna Flyer.

Why are you looking at 402's?

Edit: I looked at C&D reports before I bought my plane and found they simply mirrored the math I had done on my own. Research the inspection intervals, understand what AD's and SB's affect your airframe, get the costs to comply with them, divide engine and prop overhaul costs by time remaining (this has more to do with purchase price), figure out what you want/need to do with P&I and avionics upgrade, add in your overhead and divide everything by how much you expect to fly per year. Add in the variables and voila, that's what it costs per hour.
 
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The difference in running a 402 part 91 vs part 135 would vary significantly as well.

Some 402s are REALLY getting up there in hours/cycles. Not that there is really anything wrong with that...sorta. Any high time/high utilization bird I'd maybe take a look at the Cessna SID recommendations. There's actually some videos on Youtube if you are interested.

If you're 91, you don't have to comply but might give you an idea of trouble spots.

Richman
 
Richman said:
The difference in running a 402 part 91 vs part 135 would vary significantly as well.

Some 402s are REALLY getting up there in hours/cycles. Not that there is really anything wrong with that...sorta. Any high time/high utilization bird I'd maybe take a look at the Cessna SID recommendations. There's actually some videos on Youtube if you are interested.

If you're 91, you don't have to comply but might give you an idea of trouble spots.

Richman
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Ty, sounds like great advice!
 
milleR said:
Have you called Jerry Temple Aviation? They should be able to give you a good idea on operating costs outside your fixed expenses such as hangar, insurance and pilots. It's also worth joining Twin Cessna Flyer.

Why are you looking at 402's?

Edit: I looked at C&D reports before I bought my plane and found they simply mirrored the math I had done on my own. Research the inspection intervals, understand what AD's and SB's affect your airframe, get the costs to comply with them, divide engine and prop overhaul costs by time remaining (this has more to do with purchase price), figure out what you want/need to do with P&I and avionics upgrade, add in your overhead and divide everything by how much you expect to fly per year. Add in the variables and voila, that's what it costs per hour.
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I'll check those things out, thank you! We are interested in it carting a bunch of people around.
 
bucksmith said:
I'll check those things out, thank you! We are interested in it carting a bunch of people around.
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I don't know what your mission is, but I went with a MU-2 over a 400 series Cessna for a lot of reasons (and I have about 1500 hours in 402C's). My average flight is 200 nm, but pressurization was a requirement for me. Perhaps @Boris Badenov and I can talk you into a real airplane :)
 
milleR said:
I don't know what your mission is, but I went with a MU-2 over a 400 series Cessna for a lot of reasons (and I have about 1500 hours in 402C's). My average flight is 200 nm, but pressurization was a requirement for me. Perhaps @Boris Badenov and I can talk you into a real airplane :)
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Yeah there is no need to talk me into that hum of a MU-2, I was in love the first time I stood up and waited to see what was making all that racket! Unfortunately, the bosses have there own idea about how to run the show...Actually, reminds me of bar tending, sitting around talking about how we'd run a bar! :)
I don't want to get into too many specifics on the mission, but we often flesh out a bunch of ideas around here. Its a fun place to work ;)
 
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