BravoHotel
Well-Known Member
How do they fly? Any bad habits? Good habits? Are there any POHs or PIMs out there? New bird to me, all my multi time is in a Seminole. Cheers!
Cessna 310
- Thread starter BravoHotel
- Start date
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
If you're any taller than 5' 10", you'll whack your knees on the yoke. And the janitrol heater sucks.
Flight81
OO BRO FO
They are not the most stable aircraft, but they are a workhorse! Crappy gear design and more fragile than most. But again, you can pile a bunch of weight in it and still get about 180 TAS out of it. I've got some info I could send you that is specific to the K model.... PM your e-mail if interested.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
I flew an N model and it was a great airplane and a joy to fly. I second that about the gear... Overall a good airplane, second only to the Baron in the light twin cat.
I don't know much about the earlier models, but I've been flying the Rs for the past three years more or less daily.
They're kind of a pain in any turbulence. If a butterfly farts three states away the thing starts to dutch roll. It's annoying as hell, but if you're flying an autopilot bird with a yaw damper it's much, much better.
The gear does need attention, both from the mechanics to keep it operating and from the pilot to keep it from breaking. Don't go whipping around corners at high speed and it'll probably be ok.
They're probably a little over-powered, which is a good thing. Makes 'em fast and they can carry a startling amount of ice. When you start seeing a little jagged outline of the wingtip strobe it's time to start doing something about the ice you've picked up, like get out of it.
The fuel burn is pretty depressing. I plan on 200 pounds/hr (34-36 gph in cruise) and I'm conservative. We don't have any way of leaning them out with much precision so we're probably running way more fuel through them than they need. I've had a few up to 13,000 and pulled the fuel flows back to maybe 26 gph total.
Run off of the mains (outboards) for 90 minutes before switching to the aux tanks (inboards.) Remember that excess fuel always returns to the main for that engine, no matter where it came from, so if you take off with full tanks and immediately switch to the aux tanks you'll just dump a bunch of fuel overboard.
Also, you can't cross-feed from an aux tank, which normally isn't a big deal but if you're flying over the boonies you do want to get fuel out of the aux tanks and into the mains (by running off of the aux tanks) in case you lose a motor and need to crossfeed to get somewhere.
That being said, the fuel system is harder to describe than it is to demonstrate. It takes about 30 seconds to get it down.
Um, other than that, I'd slow the thing down in turbulence. There isn't a spar AD on the 310s. Yet. I don't want to be the guy responsible for one being issued.
They can be a bit annoying to get slowed down to gear speed, especially if you have a particularly clean airframe or are lucky enough to be flying a 550 conversion, which makes for an awesome airplane.
20 inches of MP should get you into flap range, then the drag should get you right at gear speed. Drop the gear and 17-18 inches for a nice ILS at 130 knots or so. I think the book says 89 knots or something like that on short final but I've never been willing to go that slow.
Also, VGs are a great addition. They drop VMC by 8 knots or so and increase the gross weight. The downside is they stall sort of abruptly with VGs compared to the non-VG airframes. And, of course, with a higher gross weight and the same horsepower your single-engine performance is going to suffer.
As for single-engine stuff, I think they're pretty tame. Again, lots of power. We'll do single-engine go-arounds (at altitude) all day long, which isn't something I'd even consider in some other twins.
Enjoy it. They're good airplanes.
They're kind of a pain in any turbulence. If a butterfly farts three states away the thing starts to dutch roll. It's annoying as hell, but if you're flying an autopilot bird with a yaw damper it's much, much better.
The gear does need attention, both from the mechanics to keep it operating and from the pilot to keep it from breaking. Don't go whipping around corners at high speed and it'll probably be ok.
They're probably a little over-powered, which is a good thing. Makes 'em fast and they can carry a startling amount of ice. When you start seeing a little jagged outline of the wingtip strobe it's time to start doing something about the ice you've picked up, like get out of it.
The fuel burn is pretty depressing. I plan on 200 pounds/hr (34-36 gph in cruise) and I'm conservative. We don't have any way of leaning them out with much precision so we're probably running way more fuel through them than they need. I've had a few up to 13,000 and pulled the fuel flows back to maybe 26 gph total.
Run off of the mains (outboards) for 90 minutes before switching to the aux tanks (inboards.) Remember that excess fuel always returns to the main for that engine, no matter where it came from, so if you take off with full tanks and immediately switch to the aux tanks you'll just dump a bunch of fuel overboard.
Also, you can't cross-feed from an aux tank, which normally isn't a big deal but if you're flying over the boonies you do want to get fuel out of the aux tanks and into the mains (by running off of the aux tanks) in case you lose a motor and need to crossfeed to get somewhere.
That being said, the fuel system is harder to describe than it is to demonstrate. It takes about 30 seconds to get it down.
Um, other than that, I'd slow the thing down in turbulence. There isn't a spar AD on the 310s. Yet. I don't want to be the guy responsible for one being issued.
They can be a bit annoying to get slowed down to gear speed, especially if you have a particularly clean airframe or are lucky enough to be flying a 550 conversion, which makes for an awesome airplane.
20 inches of MP should get you into flap range, then the drag should get you right at gear speed. Drop the gear and 17-18 inches for a nice ILS at 130 knots or so. I think the book says 89 knots or something like that on short final but I've never been willing to go that slow.
Also, VGs are a great addition. They drop VMC by 8 knots or so and increase the gross weight. The downside is they stall sort of abruptly with VGs compared to the non-VG airframes. And, of course, with a higher gross weight and the same horsepower your single-engine performance is going to suffer.
As for single-engine stuff, I think they're pretty tame. Again, lots of power. We'll do single-engine go-arounds (at altitude) all day long, which isn't something I'd even consider in some other twins.
Enjoy it. They're good airplanes.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
As the 'owner' of a '68 Cessna 310N, I can tell you they're fun and reliable airplanes. We've had ours for 15 years now and it's still running strong.
Good Useful Load: I can carry 1200lbs with 100 gals (Topped Off Mains, or tips) and that gives me 2 hours with an hour reserve. Or I can carry 960lbs with full fuel (140 gals - tips and aux) and have 3 hours with an hour reserve.
Fairly quick: Our's has the Continental IO-470's with 260HP a side. I typically fly 6-9,000ft with a KTAS of 180-187 and a fuel burn of 26-30 gals/hr.
The gear needs to be re-rigged EVERY ANNUAL, PERIOD. Do that and it'll last a long while.
Heavier on the controls than a Seminole and get a good feel for the "sight picture" while you're on the ground. The 310 is a good airplane to humble you while landing. Get some nose up trim and DO NOT pull the power to idle in the flare unless you want to put it down hard.
The short nose (like the N) is not a fan of single engine taxiing, so if you ever end up in a single engine situation and land...keep it on the runway or just off the runway, if you try to taxi it'll try to turn circles on you.
Feel free to ask anything else while you're learning the plane...plenty of experience here on JC to help you out!
Have fun and enjoy the 310!
Good Useful Load: I can carry 1200lbs with 100 gals (Topped Off Mains, or tips) and that gives me 2 hours with an hour reserve. Or I can carry 960lbs with full fuel (140 gals - tips and aux) and have 3 hours with an hour reserve.
Fairly quick: Our's has the Continental IO-470's with 260HP a side. I typically fly 6-9,000ft with a KTAS of 180-187 and a fuel burn of 26-30 gals/hr.
The gear needs to be re-rigged EVERY ANNUAL, PERIOD. Do that and it'll last a long while.
Heavier on the controls than a Seminole and get a good feel for the "sight picture" while you're on the ground. The 310 is a good airplane to humble you while landing. Get some nose up trim and DO NOT pull the power to idle in the flare unless you want to put it down hard.
The short nose (like the N) is not a fan of single engine taxiing, so if you ever end up in a single engine situation and land...keep it on the runway or just off the runway, if you try to taxi it'll try to turn circles on you.
Feel free to ask anything else while you're learning the plane...plenty of experience here on JC to help you out!
Have fun and enjoy the 310!
McMahon
Well-Known Member
Hawks,
Last September I was able to purchase a 1960 310 D that had a nose gear failure. I flew from South Carolina to California with the gear locked down and a 140 Vle restriction. That was not the funnest ride but 16 hours later I was safe and sound. We rebuilt the entire landing gear and repair the skins and doors. The only experience I had before this was a Seneca. Since November I have racked up over 200 hours in the plane virtually problem free. I find the plane to be pretty stable at altitude. Usually with the 470's I can cruise above 10k and get a true 160kts with a 20 gph fuel burn. The unstable characteristics kick in on the pattern for me when there are cross winds over 5kts. For someone getting used to the main tanks being on the "tips" it tends to rock quite a bit on approach. You have to be firm with the plane and keep it from oscillating. I look forward to everyday I get to fly it. They truly are great planes. The more you fly them the more you love them. They are very forgiving airplanes. I'm not sure what model you are flying, but I have a few POHs for the early models.
Last September I was able to purchase a 1960 310 D that had a nose gear failure. I flew from South Carolina to California with the gear locked down and a 140 Vle restriction. That was not the funnest ride but 16 hours later I was safe and sound. We rebuilt the entire landing gear and repair the skins and doors. The only experience I had before this was a Seneca. Since November I have racked up over 200 hours in the plane virtually problem free. I find the plane to be pretty stable at altitude. Usually with the 470's I can cruise above 10k and get a true 160kts with a 20 gph fuel burn. The unstable characteristics kick in on the pattern for me when there are cross winds over 5kts. For someone getting used to the main tanks being on the "tips" it tends to rock quite a bit on approach. You have to be firm with the plane and keep it from oscillating. I look forward to everyday I get to fly it. They truly are great planes. The more you fly them the more you love them. They are very forgiving airplanes. I'm not sure what model you are flying, but I have a few POHs for the early models.
McMahon
Well-Known Member
I second that statement, I failed to mention it don't pull power too soon......
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Hard to find a 310 that hasn't had a nose gear failure or a hard landing collapse at some point. I've seen one that was rivets on rivets on rivets... I couldn't believe it.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
As with Flight 81 I have some of the K model information (actually, we have the same stuff), as well as L/N model stuff. PM me if you'd like it- includes some profiles.
As others have pointed out, nice roomy airplane with a good useful load. It has tip tanks as the main tanks and there is a tendency for pilots to over control it at first which can make the pax sick. Fly it with your finger tips, not a death grip.
Weaknesses-
1. Landing gear. Do not take taxi turns fast. Hopefully the one your flying has had the service bulletins done that improve the gear. Otherwise, be careful.
2. Electrical system. Not bad, but many are old. I had a GCU on the -K model go Chernobyl on me during gear retraction. Fortunately the gear on mine did not come part way up. I know another MEI who had this happen and the gear got stuck in mid-position. There is the famous NASCAR 310 crash in Florida where they reset the radar circuit breaker one too many times.
3. Minor differences between models as they were improved that can bite you. For example, aux tanks in K model hold 15 gallons vs. 20 gallons in L/N model. Cross feed valves have been know to get worn as well. Only issue seems to be that the main tanks will try to drain to the aux tanks. If the aux tanks are full, the fuel drains onto the ground. Lesson- don't leave the fuel selectors on the mains.
4. Make sure you have the changes to the Owner's Manual. There have been many changes- such as the aux fuel pumps- that can really bite you if you do not have the changes.
5. Really look through the Owner's Manual, not just for what is there but for what is not there. Some of the older model Owner's Manuals are... lacking. The -K model, for example, does not have any EPs on the electrical system. So that GCU failure I had? Had to figure it out on my own.
As others have pointed out, nice roomy airplane with a good useful load. It has tip tanks as the main tanks and there is a tendency for pilots to over control it at first which can make the pax sick. Fly it with your finger tips, not a death grip.
Weaknesses-
1. Landing gear. Do not take taxi turns fast. Hopefully the one your flying has had the service bulletins done that improve the gear. Otherwise, be careful.
2. Electrical system. Not bad, but many are old. I had a GCU on the -K model go Chernobyl on me during gear retraction. Fortunately the gear on mine did not come part way up. I know another MEI who had this happen and the gear got stuck in mid-position. There is the famous NASCAR 310 crash in Florida where they reset the radar circuit breaker one too many times.
3. Minor differences between models as they were improved that can bite you. For example, aux tanks in K model hold 15 gallons vs. 20 gallons in L/N model. Cross feed valves have been know to get worn as well. Only issue seems to be that the main tanks will try to drain to the aux tanks. If the aux tanks are full, the fuel drains onto the ground. Lesson- don't leave the fuel selectors on the mains.
4. Make sure you have the changes to the Owner's Manual. There have been many changes- such as the aux fuel pumps- that can really bite you if you do not have the changes.
5. Really look through the Owner's Manual, not just for what is there but for what is not there. Some of the older model Owner's Manuals are... lacking. The -K model, for example, does not have any EPs on the electrical system. So that GCU failure I had? Had to figure it out on my own.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Yep, ours had one less than a year after we got it (and before I was even a pilot). With 310's there are those that have, and those that will. Using a MX shop with extensive 310 experience can save you lots of $$ later. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON 310 LANDING GEAR!
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Yeah concur, go realllllly easy on that nose gear and get the gear rigged every single inspection
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
One need only look through the NTSB database to see this. I'd guess that 80% of the non-fatal accidents have something to do with the landing gear- often due to mis-rigging.
BravoHotel
Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone. This is a goldmine of information! It will be a little bit before I formally tackle the C-310. I'm still playing with C-130s for a couple of months. The CFI program I plan on attending uses C-310s as their ME trainer.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Get to know the fuel system intimately. Like with the same effort you would with a girl you're trying to bone but also truly give a crap about.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Haha. That is a good one.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
personally I like 'em. I currently fly about 4 versions of the 310/320 series when I'm not flying the others in our fleet, all with RAM conversions and bells and whistles. I can email you a PDF POH if youre interested. PM me your details.
Darn good workhorses. And it only takes a few hours to get used to their handling characteristics.
Darn good workhorses. And it only takes a few hours to get used to their handling characteristics.