Certificate Revocation Question

[CirrusMonkey]

The FAA takes your certificate(s) because (enter reason here). You begin flight training at the private level to re-obtain said certificates. My question is: you now have a new certificate number so do you have to declare the previous revocation on the old certificate to the FAA (on the 8710 gray area) or even a 121 carrier, later on down the road?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I'm not completely sure but I'm fairly certain that since your certificte number is the way the FAA indentifies you, it would stay with you through your re-application.

I'm not sure about your question about reporting. Of course you report the prior revocation when asked, whether it be with a prior certificate number or the same one. Was that your question?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

All certification actions, especially revocations, are apart of your airman record.

 

[dustoff17]

Will you get a different certificate number? I think you will keep the same number so you would have to disclose previous actions.

I thought the FAA cross-referenced your Social Security Number when you make the first application for student pilot....

Could be worng....

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Your pilot certificate number used to be your SSN. Then they just asked for it to cross-reference. Now they don't cross-reference your SSN anymore, because you don't have to put it on your 8710 and I never have. However, when filling out your 8710 for a new certificate after revocation you must select "Reissuance of <x> certificate" in the same manner as if your CFI expired and you were renewing it. In this manner they can cross reference you to your old certificate number even if they were to issue you another one, but they wouldn't because the certificate number serves as your FAA unique identification number as well. There is no reason to issue another one because it won't ever be issued to anyone else.

 

[dustoff17]

I don't know the answer to the OP's question. That having been stated:

In this case, there would not be a "re-issuance" of a certificate because the other was revoked. If they rescinded (or disregarded) all of your experience and ratings, causing you to start from ground zero on your training, then you would be applying for a new certificate.

new number, new file, no previous violations.......right?

 

[nosehair]

new number, new file, no previous violations.......right?

MMBWAWHAWHAWHAW!! ...., sniff, (wipes tears) sorry, couldn't hep it. :>)

 

[Guy]

All certification actions, especially revocations, are apart of your airman record.

Actually, that is not correct. For a period of many years, the records of enforcements and accidents were expunged after five years if the airman did not have a later enforcement event. That policy has only recently changed.

 

[Guy]

In this case, there would not be a "re-issuance" of a certificate because the other was revoked. If they rescinded (or disregarded) all of your experience and ratings, causing you to start from ground zero on your training, then you would be applying for a new certificate.

No. The previous experience is still creditable towards the reissued certificate.

 

[dustoff17]

No. The previous experience is still creditable towards the reissued certificate.

I stand corrected and Guy is correct; the key word is "credible". I made a few calls on this one; based on the type of revocation that was dealt to you by the FAA and the NTSB (depends on your appeal process).

MOST (note emphasis) revocations involve a 12-month period. After 12 months, you can begin your training for your certificate again. All of your flight time and experience counts towards your new certificate(s) as GUY mentions. You still have to take new written exams, get appropriate logbook endorsements, and take all of the approriate check rides for each rating. You keep the previous certificate number and must indicate previous action against the certificate.

There is a revocation dealt out that does not include a 12 month period. Those revocations do not allow you to credit your experience any time past the date that the FAA considers "credible". There was a recent case that was appealed to the full board of the NTSB. In this case, the FAA argued that information on an application for a medical was incorrect. Later applications indicated correctly but the FAA argued that it was falsification and anything past that time was not "credible". The NTSB upheld the ruling. In this case, the pilot had to start from the date of the "falsified" application.

Of course, if you have time and money, there is nothing that prevents you from starting at ground zero. Get a new certificate number and having no previous violations......

 

[Guy]

Actually, that is not correct. For a period of many years, the records of enforcements and accidents were expunged after five years if the airman did not have a later enforcement event. That policy has only recently changed.

CORRECTION TO MY OWN POST

As I thought about that some more, I realized what I wrote was incorrect. For a period of years, the records of enforcement and accidents were expunged, but the record of revocations or other certificate actions remained on the books. So, if a revocation happened during those years the revocation would still be there, but the reason for the revocation would be missing. Of course, that policy has recently (maybe the last six months) changed, so that now the enforcement would remain on the books.

I apologize for any confusion I may have introduced to the subject.

 

[germb747]

If you're asked whether or not your certificate has been revoked, and you've ever had your certificate revoked, then the answer is yes. Why fib to the FAA about something they already know about?

 

[CirrusMonkey]

So there is no such thing as "starting from scratch". Question answered. Thanks fellas

 

[chrisdahut1]

So there is no such thing as "starting from scratch". Question answered. Thanks fellas

No, unfortunately not.

A few years ago I read (can't remember where though) an article about a pilot who tried a crafty scheme while going through certificate action with the Feds. Before they could finish the process, he voluntarily surrendered his certificate to OKC for cancellation under 61.27(a)(1). He then argued that since he had no certificate, they couldn't suspend/revoke it. They did anyway. He then appealed to the NTSB judges, and they ruled in favor of the FAA.

The judge reasoned that had he been successful, a pilot could theoretically avoid ever receiving any kind of punishment. The pilot could simply surrender, re-test the next week and bam...new certificate.