Cargo companies in the northeast

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gmiller367

New Member
Hey folks - new this forum.

Wanted to know if anyone is aware of any night fight cargo companies in the northeast that have any SIC PFT programs. Love flying and considering a career change at 37 and thought it would be good to spend some time living the dream before taking the plunge. Figured it may be worth some money to gain some perspective. I had contacted Eagle Jet Intl in Miami but he places primarily with Ameriflight out west. Not an option for me. Thanks in advance.
 
Hey... I think the safest bet is to go to a flight school and get an intro flight. My bet is that it would be difficult for a 135 operator to let you "ride along" for the night. They are sticklers with insurance and what not, and for every pound of human that they carry, thats one less pound of cargo. (This is what I'm told by our 135 operator here in Ohio).

In any event, try an Intro Flight at a local flight school.... typically $49, and find someplace operating state of the art equipment such as a Cirrus. In any event, I wish I could be of more help.... but thats all I can think of. Another option that I think might be worth your while is Airline Training Orientation Program (ATOP). Check out www.b737.com This is a two day course where you can ask airline pilots what their jobs are like, network, find out more about a flying career, and fly a B-737 simulator! In any event, I've got a friend whos girlfriend got him this for Christmas. He is really looking forward to it.

Take care, and let us all know if you come up with something!
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I have about 300 hours under my belt - SEL Commercial Instrument with hi-perf and complex endorsements. I looked at some pft programs like Eagle Jet Intl - www.eaglejet.net. They offer 100, 500, 1000, 1250 hour packages sitting right seat for companies like Ameriflight "flying the line". They claim you can log PF as PIC and PNF as SIC (not quite sure how this is possible legally speakng since the turboprops they fly, Metro, Beech 99, 1900, they fly single pilot). You get 135 indoc and a SIC checkride before you start. $100 hours in Beech 99 is $11,900. Problem is I am not moving to SLC for 100 hours.

I looked into ATOP and I plan on doing that. Thought it would be a good experience for those evaluating a career change.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Yea...there was an operation similar to that in Colorado called Key Lime Air. It is a joke of an operation. I don't know much about the SIC programs, but I know I've heard people say a lot of bad things about them on this forum. In any event, I think the ATOP thing would be a blast! Good luck!
 
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This probably isn't the site that you want to ask about PFT on.

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Why's that? if you are a pilot than I am sure you have paid for training at some point in your life.

After reading a lot of posts on this site over the last few months I assumed that this was an open forum to request opinions and advice. Maybe I was wrong.

While I respect your opinion, why do you feel its taboo to ask about cargo companies that may be located near my home that offer pft? I am merely trying to experience what life would be like as a low time pilot, trying to make it, so I can gain perspective and make an informed decision before I make life altering changes at 37 that impact my career, my wife and two lovely children.

I have worked very hard for the last sixteen years, after paying to put myself through college, and I've made enough money that I can afford to go take a look and still declare a miss if I decide not to land. In my opinion its just common sense.
 
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Why's that? if you are a pilot than I am sure you have paid for training at some point in your life.

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Do search for "PFT." There was a good thread a couple of weeks ago in the General forums. To me, there's a BIG difference between paying for TRAINING (private, instrument, commercial, etc) and paying someone else to do a job they should be paying me to do. Most of the PFT SIC programs are pretty shady, especially if you're looking to log it. If you're a required crew member, you should be getting paid. For example, a CFI is a required crew member during a flight lesson, hence he gets paid. If you're NOT a required crew member, then you can't log the time, period, end of discussion.
 
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To me, there's a BIG difference between paying for TRAINING (private, instrument, commercial, etc) and paying someone else to do a job they should be paying me to do. Most of the PFT SIC programs are pretty shady, especially if you're looking to log it. If you're a required crew member, you should be getting paid. For example, a CFI is a required crew member during a flight lesson, hence he gets paid. If you're NOT a required crew member, then you can't log the time, period, end of discussion.

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I don't disagree. My reasons for looking into pft, at this time, is purely for the "life experience" as opposed to the loggable time. At 37, married and 2 kids I think being better informed is prudent. I am fairly new to the investigative process and seperating the shady stuff from the legit is sometimes tough. Look at my original post as I too question the legality of some of these programs just based on the FARs.

My intention was not to get into a pft debate. At the end of the day we all have our opinions on a number of subjects including religion, politics and even pay for training. But isn't it great to be able to voice them. What a great country we live in!
 
Gmiller.... just do the ATOP thing, ask some of the guys you meet there about "the life" and there are a TON of pilots, regional, cargo, major, LCC, on this website. You have every resource you could possibly need right here. If you want to "experience" the life from a systems, sim, etc. standpoint, do the ATOP thing.

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My intention was not to get into a pft debate. At the end of the day we all have our opinions on a number of subjects including religion, politics and even pay for training. But isn't it great to be able to voice them. What a great country we live in!

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That's cool. It's just that even mentioning PFT around here is liable to set off about 10% of the population.
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I think there might be a better way to get life experience than paying for it, though. I have better things to do with the cash like build ME time in a Seneca. You might call a couple of the operators and ask if you can observe their operation at night and maybe ask some questions. Be up front and tell them why. You might not get near the planes due to security reasons, but you might get a feel for how the night freight ops work. As far as the life style, I think interviewing freight pilots (and there's quite a few around here) might reveal a bit more than just paying for some flights. You get a wider variety of experiences and opinions that way. And it's cheaper.

As far as the ATOP thing goes, if I had the time and cash, I'd do that myself.
 
"They claim you can log PF as PIC"

Do you have a link? This doesn't seem legal. Amflight is a part 135 operation. The Capt is the PIC, period. When you go through their ground school and flight training, you become qualified as SIC and can log it as such. I know guys at Amflight get paid $5 an hour extra to allow Eaglejet guys to sit in the right seat. You are NOT a required crewmember and can be bumped for freight.
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Personally, I have no big problem if one wants to build time through a program where you AREN'T a required crewmember. Programs like Gulfstream, you ARE a required crewmember. Also, I don't know that Amflight looks highly on Eagleflight program guys when it come to jobs. My buddy just got hired at Amflight with 1202 and 45. They called HIM for the job. They are fairly desperate for pilots and one would think there would have been many Eaglejet program guys with those time sitting around. Why didn't one of those guys get the call? Maybe they all got on a XJT....

Do you understand why most of us at jetcareers don't like programs where you pay for a job?
 
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"They claim you can log PF as PIC"

Do you have a link? This doesn't seem legal. Amflight is a part 135 operation. The Capt is the PIC, period. When you go through their ground school and flight training, you become qualified as SIC and can log it as such. I know guys at Amflight get paid $5 an hour extra to allow Eaglejet guys to sit in the right seat. You are NOT a required crewmember and can be bumped for freight.
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Personally, I have no big problem if one wants to build time through a program where you AREN'T a required crewmember. Programs like Gulfstream, you ARE a required crewmember. Also, I don't know that Amflight looks highly on Eagleflight program guys when it come to jobs. My buddy just got hired at Amflight with 1202 and 45. They called HIM for the job. They are fairly desperate for pilots and one would think there would have been many Eaglejet program guys with those time sitting around. Why didn't one of those guys get the call? Maybe they all got on a XJT....

Do you understand why most of us at jetcareers don't like programs where you pay for a job?

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What if these companies let you sit there and get the experience without you paying them or them paying you? This is legit and I know a few places that do this. To bad there are those bad apples trying to get money anyway they can.
 
Back when I was a private pilot I walked into a small freight operator's office. I wanted to see what that kind of flying was like, so I asked if I could tag along on a flight or two. They said, "yep, no problem."

Of course, I didn't get to log anything, but it was free. If you are just looking to "see what it's like" as you claim, you might try doing that before you drop crazy $$$ on some questionable pft deal. My $.02.
 
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What if these companies let you sit there and get the experience without you paying them or them paying you? This is legit and I know a few places that do this.

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As long as you're not a required crewmember, then I don't have a problem with that at all. I'd go along for the ride a couple of nights for the experience myself. If you are a required crew member, then to me that is the company taking advantage of a pilot's desperation for hours to save a buck or two.
 
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Back when I was a private pilot I walked into a small freight operator's office. I wanted to see what that kind of flying was like, so I asked if I could tag along on a flight or two. They said, "yep, no problem."

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See, that's cool. I wouldn't mind doing that, and it's a great networking opportunity for down the road. The downside is that a lot of companies might say "no" due to insurance reasons in this sue happy world.......
 
Don't get me started on PFT...Why pay what you should be getting paid to do...The more people that pay to sit in the right seat the more this industry goes backwards....


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While I'm sure everyone here likes to look out for other's best interest, the real problem is not you throwing your money away. The problem is that everytime someone with some money does this, it screws the rest of us that are looking for a job starting out. If you go out and give someone money to fly in the cockpit period, you are bringing the industry down. If they want to be nice and let you ride along a few times that's one thing, but they should never be allowed to take money for this. If you want to pay to get the experience of being on an airplane a lot then sit in the back with the rest of the PAX.
 
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"They claim you can log PF as PIC"

Do you have a link? This doesn't seem legal. Amflight is a part 135 operation. The Capt is the PIC, period. When you go through their ground school and flight training, you become qualified as SIC and can log it as such. I know guys at Amflight get paid $5 an hour extra to allow Eaglejet guys to sit in the right seat. You are NOT a required crewmember and can be bumped for freight.

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I didn't think it seemed legal either. If I can't meet the minimum time requirments for 135 PIC than how could I log it as such? They don't mention it on their web site but they do in a .pdf file they sent me. If any one would like to see it send me an email and I'll forward it to you - gmiller367@comcast.net.

I never thought of approaching local companies. I always figured because of security, insurance or just that I would account for 190 less pounds of cargo they coud carry it was a waste if time. I guess if you don't ask you don't know.

Thanks to you all for the advice. Sorry for ruffling a few feathers along the way too.
 
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The problem is that everytime someone with some money does this, it screws the rest of us that are looking for a job starting out. If you go out and give someone money to fly in the cockpit period, you are bringing the industry down. If they want to be nice and let you ride along a few times that's one thing, but they should never be allowed to take money for this. If you want to pay to get the experience of being on an airplane a lot then sit in the back with the rest of the PAX.

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Well that's just kinda snotty but its an opinion, which I can appreciate.

AGAIN, my intention was not to start a discussion on pft and those that continue to respond as such, please go back and READ my posts and stop taking it out of context. I don't necessarily agree with pft either. I was investigating ways to spend some time gaining some perspective on the job and lifestyle. Interviewng people for perspective has flaws because it's not me. If I had started this quest 16 years ago after college, when I didn't have responsibility for any one else other than me, I would have jumped in with both feet and figured it out as I went along. With age and family comes the need to tread litely before making life altering decisions. If you are not a mid-career changer you may not be able to appreciate this but will realize it in time.

If I had the money to spend on Richard Branson's space shot for the experience, and you were an aspiring NASA Astronaut, would I be screwing you out of a job?

If I did pay for some "experience" and decided to move forward with aviation as a career through normal means then I might be screwing you out of a job because you'd have one more person to contend with when applying. The bottom line is we live in a free country. Money and capitalism drive behavior, if it isn't illegal and companies are willing to undertake the effort than so be it. You just don't have to take part. Just like a radio or TV station - don't like what's on then change the channel. I don't hold a grudge against people who's parents paid for Harvard while I put myself through a crummy little state school for basically the same education. You think they would have gotten a job before me based soley on education - you bet. But see here's a little secret I'll let you in on - I know that when the time comes I will beat them through perseverance and hard work. F'em.
 
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The bottom line is we live in a free country. Money and capitalism drive behavior, if it isn't illegal and companies are willing to undertake the effort than so be it. You just don't have to take part. Just like a radio or TV station - don't like what's on then change the channel.

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Absolutely right.

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I don't hold a grudge against people who's parents paid for Harvard while I put myself through a crummy little state school for basically the same education. You think they would have gotten a job before me based soley on education - you bet. But see here's a little secret I'll let you in on - I know that when the time comes I will beat them through perseverance and hard work. F'em.

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And I don't hold a grudge against people who pay for [insert PFT program here] while I flight instruct in POS airplanes, and fly charter for peanuts for what amounts to basically better experience (that I'm getting paid for). You think they would get a job before me based solely on the fact that they bought a bunch of turbine time- they might, or might not. But here's a little secret that I'll let you in on- I know that when the time comes I will have beaten them through perseverance and hard work (actually I already have). And when they drop their pathetic resume on my desk someday looking for a job, I'll say the same thing: F'em.

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If I had the money to spend on Richard Branson's space shot for the experience, and you were an aspiring NASA Astronaut, would I be screwing you out of a job?

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Grasping at straws a bit, aren't we?


Do what you want man, but don't expect to tip the argument in your favor around here...or in lots of other places in the industry.

G'day.
 
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