Career planning now that everything is changing

awf

awf

Well-Known Member
Fellow aviation newbs, what are you planning to do now that the game has changed? A year ago the standard path was to pay for primary training and than get beat up flying low time gigs for table scraps until you met mins. (unless you came from money or somehow justified a soul crushing loan and had no qualms about taking the zero to hero route)

As things change in the industry though it doesn't seem this method of entry is viable now. Low time gigs don't seem to exist anymore, jobs that used to be considered "low time" for a newly minted commercial pilot are very rare and when they do come up now require high hundreds or even 1000+ TT
So is paying out of pocket for the 1st 1000 hours the only option left for us newbs to get our foot in the door? I suppose I could do that but I'd 15 years away from retirment before I built up enough time to qualify for even the most basic entry level pilot jobs out there.
What are some of you planning to do to build up those first 1000 to 1500 hours? I've been looking around for ideas but even volunteering for a non profit requires you pay for the aircraft expenses out of pocket.

I have a background as an entrepreneur and am considering purchasing a trainer and free lancing after I finish my CFI but with credit dried up and a recession there are already a lot of independent CFI's out there struggling to feed their families. Thoughts?
 
You need to understand that the last hiring wave at the regional level was an aberration. Things will, hopefully, now return to the way they have historically been. Get your ratings, instruct, fly 135, regional, major. That's, of course, on the civilian side. The military trained pilot can go straight to the majors.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
You need to understand that the last hiring wave at the regional level was an aberration. Things will, hopefully, now return to the way they have historically been. Get your ratings, instruct, fly 135, regional, major. That's, of course, on the civilian side. The military trained pilot can go straight to the majors.
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Let's hope so, right now a new CFI has virtually zero chance of getting hired by a flight school. Even the freelance schools arround here aren't accepting new CFI's. There are plenty of experienced instructors looking for work so the new guys aren't even getting a chance.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
You need to understand that the last hiring wave at the regional level was an aberration. Things will, hopefully, now return to the way they have historically been. Get your ratings, instruct, fly 135, regional, major. That's, of course, on the civilian side. The military trained pilot can go straight to the majors.
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I wasn't even talking about the regionals. Things like jump pilots, traffic watch, banner towing I'm seeing 750TT+. Same thing with CFI gigs. Jobs that were historically meant to be "entry level" want some pretty significant hours to be considered now.
So what are the new CFI's with 275 TT doing?
 
Keep digging for a job. You will find one. Go to see flight schools on a weekly basis to show them you are a motivated guy.

I got out of ATP with 245 hours and no one local was hiring a low time CFI. I found a gig but had to commute 1:30 each way. I did it and built a pretty good customer base through following up with emails, phone calls etc. While the other CFI's at the FBO were lucky to scape 20hrs a month, I was putting up 60ish. I literaly lived at the airport and took every intro flight I could and talked to everyone that came by.

The hard work i put in in Ohio turned into a stable CFI job in PHX. If you want it bad enough and are willing to do ANYTHING to make it happen, it will.

Eric
 
There are jobs to be had out there, but it seems as if the selection criteria has changed quite a bit. Times are becoming less of the determinant of whether or not one will get hired; to me it appears that your personality, qualities, drive, and aptitude are playing large roles in the hiring process right now. For every job there are numerous applicants that meet the aeronautical experience requirements, now one must set themselves apart. It's tough out there but not impossible.
 
awf said:
I wasn't even talking about the regionals. Things like jump pilots, traffic watch, banner towing I'm seeing 750TT+. Same thing with CFI gigs. Jobs that were historically meant to be "entry level" want some pretty significant hours to be considered now.
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Things may be different now than they were back when I was foolish enough to try it as far a getting CFI gigs go. But everything else is still the same for the low time pilot.

Here's the thing you will eventually come to learn about a lot of the low time pilot gigs out there. There are some companies that will only hire low time pilots as a rule regardless of what the industry is doing. This is because they're going to treat you like a dog, put you in equipment that is poorly maintained to an extreme, and pay you next to nothing for the privilege of risking your life in their flying death traps.

These companies do not ever want 1000+ hour pilots regardless of what the industry is doing because they have learned that if they hire a guy with 1000+ hours, the guy is going to quit as soon as he finds something safer if he even lasts that long. OTOH, they have learned that when they put a 300 hour wonder in their plane, that kid is likely to hang around until he's got 700 or 800 hours. Maybe even 1000 or more if they can BS the kid into believing that this job is the only option with the times they have.

Those jobs were around when I was doing it, and they're still around now. I don't recommend that anyone take them, including you. But you cannot say that there are no options for a low time pilots because there alway are.

Or let me rephrase that a bit. Certain jobs are seasonal, like banners and sight seeing and such. Other jobs are constant like traffic watch. For the seasonal stuff, you might have to wait until the next season, be willing to relocate and be willing to commit to a full season, and quite often be willing to pay an 'I promise I won't quit before the end of the season' deposit up front. For other jobs like traffic watch or certain aerial survey type stuff, you just have to wait until the current crop of dogs get fed up and leave. For instance there's a traffic watch job posted elsewhere on this forum right now. That same job was probably posted about 8 months ago. And it will probably be posted again about 8 months from now.

Those jobs are out there. You might have to be patient and you definitely have to bang on a lot of doors to find them, but they're just as available as they ever were.
 
Yeah, a couple of schools turned me down because I had too much time. They wanted a low time CFI because it was much more likely to keep him or her around for at least 2 years. Kind of silly, but a number of schools are like that.
 
Let's be honest, what's next is CFI becoming a side activity that people do (for free) while also working a full-time job.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Let's be honest, what's next is CFI becoming a side activity that people do (for free) while also working a full-time job.
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I dunno. I think that's already the case. That's certainly the only way I would consider doing CFI work (except for the free part). But are you saying that you think the industry will become such that there is simply no demand for full time CFI's and scheduling flexibility that they can offer? I could see a significant reduction in the demand for flex schedule CFI's but I think there will be at least some demand for the foreseeable future.
 
awf said:
Fellow aviation newbs, what are you planning to do now that the game has gone back to the way it was before 2005
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Fixed it for you.

2006-2008 was an anomally. Anyway, you are not going to see that kind of hiring for at least 5 more years even if the ATP requirement isn't there.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
I dunno. I think that's already the case. That's certainly the only way I would consider doing CFI work (except for the free part). But are you saying that you think the industry will become such that there is simply no demand for full time CFI's and scheduling flexibility that they can offer? I could see a significant reduction in the demand for flex schedule CFI's but I think there will be at least some demand for the foreseeable future.
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With the new ATP rule, combined with dying demand for flight training, I think new CFIs will be so desperate for hours that you'll see many of them start offering to work for free (which will require a side job to live off of). A lot of these guys are going to be working the late shift at Arby's, so I dont' think scheduling issues will be too great of a concern. I do believe that the new rules will drive up regional FO pay, so I could certainly see a lot of guys justifying "volunteer" work to make it.

I could see someone in my situation doing that if they were interested in becoming a professional pilot. I could afford to CFI in my spare time for free since I have a professional job during the day that pays the bills. As is stands now, you have a lot of older retired guys who will CFI for $20 or less just to get up in the air. Not saying I would (don't want to start that fire), but I could see rationalizing it if it were my goal.
 
I wouldn't say they are no job for low time pilots. Look around. Even if it means instructing in a glider as well as airplanes. A local glider club's main CFI-G retired and next season they need a instructor. So they are working with me to get my CFI-G and I will instruct there 3 days a week and instruct in airplanes the other 4. There are jobs you just have to network. And do not work for free. Things in the economy will turn around and flying will pick back up. This isnt the first recession the flying industry has been through.

And I disagree that full time CFI are a dying breed. Maybe the low time full time CFI will have a hard time but the career CFI with 1000's of hours of Dual and that specializes in something will stay busy.
 
Jbroz04 said:
I wouldn't say they are no job for low time pilots. Look around. Even if it means instructing in a glider as well as airplanes. A local glider club's main CFI-G retired and next season they need a instructor. So they are working with me to get my CFI-G and I will instruct there 3 days a week and instruct in airplanes the other 4.
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:yeahthat:

There are never enough CFI-G's to go around at my club either. Flying tows is another good way to log time (you just need a PPL). You can be a CFI in gliders at 200 hours TT (or even less, 25 hours glider + 100 flights).
 
USMCmech said:
Fixed it for you.

2006-2008 was an anomally. Anyway, you are not going to see that kind of hiring for at least 5 more years even if the ATP requirement isn't there.
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I wouldn't say it was an anomaly because it was also due to the fact that majors shrunk and regionals grew. We should all be concerned about our future 10 20 years down the road not whether we'll find a job at an airline. It looks like more and more of us will be stuck flying Rjs for very low ages since regionals are getting bigger than the majors.
 
You can be a CFI in gliders at 200 hours TT (or even less, 25 hours glider + 100 flights).
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Commercial glider add on.
No written. If you have powered Comm & 200 hours PIC in heavier than air, you only need 20 solo glider flights, 3 hours dual or 10 dual instruction flights. Ref 61.127(b)(6) & 61.129(f) The number of flights it takes to solo is dependant on you. As soon as you can do all the things in 61.127(b)(6), you solo!

CFIG
You will need to take a written to add on the CFIG. It is pretty simple. No FOI or that type stuff, just glider ops and aeronautical knowledge. Same stuff as powered CFI questions. You will need 15 hours glider PIC and then all the training specified in 61.183.


Flying tows is another good way to log time (you just need a PPL).
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While it is a good way to build time you dont get paid for it so I would rather be in the glider making 20 a hour versus towing making nothing.
 
Jbroz04 said:
While it is a good way to build time you dont get paid for it so I would rather be in the glider making 20 a hour versus towing making nothing.
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If you don't already have the 100 TT powered you need for C-ASEL, you might as well get the time for free.

But, yeah, I'll take the $20/hour too.

I do find it funny that the "time building" I'll be doing for my C-ASEL will be as dual given and getting paid for it :)
 
Whatever works for you lol. I just wish I lived in a area that was better for gliding. Most the flying here is just circles around the airport. Even if we get good thermals there not much around us so it mostly just staying in the general area. But we do take gliders to different compeitions througout the year where we can actually get some mountain flying time in.
 
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