Career Advice - Options to get to ATP mins

skysurfer80

Well-Known Member
Hi guys, I'm looking for some advice on which way to go to get to ATP mins. Specifically, I'm interested in the way the regionals will view different types of time. I'm currently at 600 hours and am trying to figure out the best way to go. I'm thinking about two different options:

Option 1: Buy a light single and fly it all over the place until I get up to ATP mins and then try to get a job with a regional airline. If I go this route I won't have any turbine time or time in a professional multi-crew environment. Another variant includes flying until 135 IFR mins and getting hired at a 135 outfit before moving on.

Option 2: I have an opportunity to fly right seat in a 135 outfit flying Caravans that would get me to ATP mins in about a year. I would be able to log the time, but the pay is criminal and the QOL is terrible. Presumed advantages are that it would be turbine time in a multi-crew environment for a scheduled operation.

I have a good non-aviation job that has provided the financial flexibility to be able to buy a plane and still come out ahead financially via Option 1 since I can do Option 1 and my day job concurrently. Option 2 requires me to relocate. In essence, I worry that the time in Option 1 would be much less desirable to the regionals than Option 2 and I would have a hard time getting a job with the regionals this way....thoughts? Also, I'm not getting any younger (30s) so time is a factor as well.

I appreciate your sharing of experience and advice, so thanks in advance.
 
Option 2! That's what I did. 1100 hrs in one year. Humbling is an understatement. I learned so much slugging it around in Caravans in bad weather. QOL sucks, but man is the experience worth it. I would do it all over again too.
 
I would get the plane, have a blast flying it where ever you want to go (and really, do go as many, far off places as you can to get experience) and then look to the 135 world as soon as you can. Get some experience (as @USN88 said) slugging it out in bad weather for a while, hopefully with a local company and not terrible quality of life, and then move on to a regional.

If you go to a job, that you already know is going to absolutely suck, there is a very good chance that you'll burn out on flying before you ever make it to your ATP mins.
 
Neither choice is exceptionally good.

Option 1 is great because of the freedom you get, and everything is up to you whenever you want. That's personally a great thing, but when you get to a regional you don't have the professional experience as a pilot.

Option 2: is just no.

But either way if you have the magic number [1500] today you're in (minor exclusions like arrests, DUIs, etc etc)

I would go with number 1, then go fly freight for 6-12 months.
 
Buy the plane. Fly the snot out of it. Get your time, then sell the plane.

I've seen people get hired with no training beyond minimum license requirements.

Regionals are already pushing and shoving for min time ATP holders.

There isn't much money in the regionals for at least the first few years... So there's not really much point in cutting your own financial throat to get there. Keep the job you have in the meantime.
 
I would be embarrassed to have significant amounts of C208 SIC time in my logbook, but that's just me. You can do 135 VFR at 500tt.

It's gotten me 4/4 on regional interviews that have turned into offers. I've learned a ton doing it. Definitely not embarrassed.
 
Buying a plane is a huge risk that many people don't even consider. Unless you have a lot of cash reserves, don't do it. It would be terrible to have a camshaft go bad and not have the money to fix the airplane and not be able to sell it for what you owe. This happened to @ryanmickG on a 1000 hour engine. Fortunately, he was in a position to get it fixed.
 
Yeah I bought a plane a couple years ago as an investment and in less than a month had to put close to 30K in it for a new engine. Unless you have cash reserves to buy a new engine I would say don't even consider it. You can get yourself in a real bad spot. Also, consider other variables to plane ownership, it's not as cheap as it might look on paper. Doing the amount of flying that you want to do I could see the MX bills adding up quick. People don't realize how much some of this stuff is to replace. Mags, gyro instruments, vacuum pumps, carbs....all in the thousand dollar range, and all break on a regular basis.
 
Buying a plane is a huge risk that many people don't even consider. Unless you have a lot of cash reserves, don't do it. It would be terrible to have a camshaft go bad and not have the money to fix the airplane and not be able to sell it for what you owe. This happened to @ryanmickG on a 1000 hour engine. Fortunately, he was in a position to get it fixed.

Good point. Instead of outright buying- join a flying club where you operate to break-even, rather than renting from an FBO to make money. Or buy block time for a discount. If you really just want to run the Hobbs meter, there are ways that don't involve just paying market rental rate and having to deal with it.
 
If he can keep his good job and still build time I would recommend that. Better then putting yourself in the poor house for a few years.
Buying time and or an airplane could end up being a wash compared to the paycut he will take from quitting and taking a lower paying job.
 
Thanks for all the replies, good insight. I might add that with Option 1 I would try to get an LOA from the local FSDO for sight seeing flights and establish a small business that would theoretically decrease the cost of ownership in the form of tax deductions as well as some (hopefully) revenue. Of course that has it's added costs in itself in the form of the drug and alcohol program and mandatory 100 hour inspections. That's what led me to the idea of ownership vice block time or flying clubs, since it would be pretty hard to do that with a plane you don't have exclusive (or primary) access to.

The problem with doing a low time job full time is that they pay so poorly that even if I were to simply rent a plane at local rental rates for the same hours, I still come out ahead keeping the day job. I was considering taking an aerial mapping job, but after running the numbers, I actually come out ahead just renting for those hours, and that is one of the better paying low time jobs. So I figured maybe ownership was worth the gamble to see if that would offer a lower per hour rate than the rental fleet. I have a part time gig flying but it only nets about 100 hours a year or less.

I understand that if I go to the regionals living in the poor house for the first two years is inevitable, but trying to sort out the best way to get there. Haha yep, I'm trying to figure out how to get to the poor house.
 
Yeah I bought a plane a couple years ago as an investment and in less than a month had to put close to 30K in it for a new engine. Unless you have cash reserves to buy a new engine I would say don't even consider it. You can get yourself in a real bad spot. Also, consider other variables to plane ownership, it's not as cheap as it might look on paper. Doing the amount of flying that you want to do I could see the MX bills adding up quick. People don't realize how much some of this stuff is to replace. Mags, gyro instruments, vacuum pumps, carbs....all in the thousand dollar range, and all break on a regular basis.
Don't forget shop time at $80/hr minimum if you're not an A&P/IA.

To the OP:
Would not recommend ownership as a quick way to build ATP time. It's sort of like joining the military and flying, where you have to want to be in the military and fly, not join the military just so you can fly. You have to want to own an airplane and have the side benefit of building time, not buy the airplane with the sole purpose of building time. If any of that makes any sense.
 
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