Canadian ATC: Center asking if you have ATIS?

Alchemy

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
I've noticed in Canada that Toronto/Montreal Center seems to want you to give them the ATIS code for your arrival airport as soon as you cross the border, even if you're going somewhere that's quite a few miles north of that, such as Quebec City.

So what's up with that? Is this an ICAO thing or is it just Canada? They don't seem to do this in Mexico, and I'm sad to say that those two countries are the extent of my international experience.

Should I start checking in with Tornoto Center as "Airliner 1234, level three-five-zero with information tango, quebec city"?
 
Well, to answer your question I have to ask you a couple.

What altitude are you flying at when you check-in? (EDIT: I see you check in at FL350, I can't see why they would want to have your ATIS letter... it's definately not in our national regulations to ask for it, it may for some weird reason be in their local procedures, but I cannot for the life of me understand why, outside of saving the low controllers time)

I work high altitude, which in Canada is most often FL290 and above, if I'm not mistaken all of Montreals airspace is 290 and above as well, at least the airspace beside ours is.

Without pulling out the books I can't honestly say weather or not if the controllers below FL280 are required to ask, I had thought it was the approach sector which would want to know.

I can tell you that for us FL290 and above, we very often have pilots checking in saying that the have the ATIS, now the funny thing is, while we can pull the active weather for our busiest arrival airport which updates every 10 seconds, I don't see the actual current ATIS letter, I only have that information for one airport in my airspace, which happens to be my home airport. Why don't I have it? Because I don't need it, I can pull up-to-date weather for our two "busiest" airports, but I don't generally need it, we can also pull current METAR's for all major airports in Canada, all airports in our region, and 25-30 of the busiest airports in the US North East. 99.9% of arrivals that I work already have it through datalink information, not to mention the fact that 95% of the traffic I work is en-route overflights, (oceanic on/off-load)


Checking in with Toronto and having them ask you if you have the Quebec ATIS doesn't make any sense at all, I handle some YQB arrivals and we are not required to do that, so something doesn't add up, HOWEVER they may have some obscure local procedure that I'm not aware of. We do have a lot of local procedures ourselves that a lot of other centres might find strange.
 
...and guys dropping names trying to get direct TRAIT in the middle of Moncton's airspace... :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
...and guys dropping names trying to get direct TRAIT in the middle of Moncton's airspace... :)
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At the very least dropping names so that two other guys get vectors instead of just one :D

However... that would never ever ever happen ....:crazy:
 
canadian_atc said:
Checking in with Toronto and having them ask you if you have the Quebec ATIS doesn't make any sense at all, I handle some YQB arrivals and we are not required to do that, so something doesn't add up, HOWEVER they may have some obscure local procedure that I'm not aware of. We do have a lot of local procedures ourselves that a lot of other centres might find strange.
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Thank you very much for the reply! It is greatly appreciated.

Actually, on this flight we were coming from EWR to YQB, so we were at FL270..... I was just being generic with my previous example. Perhaps the altitude explains my encounters. In a similar vein, for destination cities close to the border, like YYZ and YUL, we're already descending into the 20's by the time we cross into Canadian airspace, even if our cruising altitude was in the 30's.

Do Canadian "arrival" (approach) frequencies usually extend up into the 20's? Maybe I just need to pay more attention to the way I'm given the handoff by US ATC ("contact Montreal arrivals" vs. "contact Montreal center", I can't really remember which one I got on this YQB example). Because of my american-centricity, When I check in with someone at FL270, I automatically expect to be talking to an ARTCC rather than a TRACON. Even so, if it were the US, I would not provide Montreal arrivals with the YQB ATIS since I'm merely transitioning through their airspace, I'd wait until initial contact with YQB "Arrivals".

I'm probably just getting tripped up on the ATC structure. In the US (and Mexico), my experience has been that approach control facilities are rarely responsible for airspace above FL200. The only exception I can think of is Joshua approach over Edward AFB, which probably goes up to FL600. Because of this, I get surprised when people give me ATIS info in the mid 20's.

Overall I'm sure I'm putting way too much thought into this, but I'm just curious, because I only get to fly to Canada a few dozen times per year at most.
 
I can't speak for every Terminal airspace in the country without referencing charts, but the only Terminal airspace in my FIR covers FL230 and below to the ground obviously and a 100NM ring... ... so it is perhaps quite a bit higher than in the states..
 
Depends on the terminal facility, mine owns from sea level to FL230 in about 1/4 of our airspace. Most of the time those would be Departure sectors though. Arrivals can be descending from up high though.
 
I have notcied this whenever going into Canada. I just go ahead and be proactive and give it to them. They always thank me and give me the runway assignment and altimeter. Who knows why anyone does anything...
 
Just had this today. Outside of London, ON @ 290. Handed off from Cleveland to Toronto Center. Center asks if we have the current Atis? Had this happen a few times before going into YQB as well.
 
jdlilfan said:
Just had this today. Outside of London, ON @ 290. Handed off from Cleveland to Toronto Center. Center asks if we have the current Atis? Had this happen a few times before going into YQB as well.
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Had this again just outside of YWT VOR into YYZ. Handed off from Cleveland to Toronto center. Toronto asks if we have the current ATIS and tells us our expected runway.
 
Yeah, I guess it's just "one of those things" that you have no way of knowing about until you've encountered it. I suppose the verdict is "give toronto/montreal center your ATIS code as soon as you cross the border". I've Never flown into Canada west of Toronto so I couldn't say if they do it out there or not.
 
I've noticed it going to Ottawa, Quebec, Montreal and Toronto.....Not so much going to Halifax and St Johns.

I think the difference is in YOW/YQB/YUL/YYZ you usually only talk to one or two center sectors before getting handed off to approach. That first center controller may be the one handing you off to approach. Also many of the arrivals into those airports have varying procedures which are runway dependent. So the center controller may be setting you up for the arrival by letting you know which RWY is in use which in turn lets you know which crossing restrictions will apply. I know in YOW for instance the crossing restrictions are RWY dependent.

In YYT and YHZ you're cruising for a while before you're worrying about an arrival or descent.
 
I've been flying up to YYZ/YUL/YOW/YHZ/YQB/YYT/YQM for some time and may I say the Canadian controllers do a great job. Very friendly professional bunch.
 
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