Canadair Crash at ASE / Aspen Eagle, Colorado

I would bet slightly less than 10% of landings on ASE RWY 15 have a tailwind greater than 10 kts at the MAP, but that the majority of flights fall probably within ±5 kts of headwind. Approaches continued in the conditions at the time of the accident would seem to be very exceptional.
 
GypsyPilot said:
The issue isn't the regulars like you. It's the transient guys that show up, often without doing appropriate research. Heck, I've sat on the ramp and watched people botching the Lindz 8 many, many times. It isn't the regulars doing that.
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I agree but let's think about that. Many of us who've flown corporate and/or charter ops for any length of time are always operating into unfamiliar airports, countries and environments. So why would Aspen or Telluride or Sun Valley be any different? If we will do our jobs and not compromise for fear of being terminated then these accidents will nearly not exist. Besides, from my experience most owners/clients will have more respect for you as a professional if you communicate the basis of your decisions with articulate and courteous authority. We must NEVER operate out of a fear of losing our jobs. Chances are, it won't happen anyway! Even if it does, you will be ok. When I lost mine for these reasons I was the sole provider, had no savings and married with three children (still am). Within days of termination I was called on by a much better company based on references and recommendations by local colleagues without even knowing it! You do the right thing.....it will work out. Every time.
 
Deadly combination: A customer with an attitude, a pilot without a backbone, and time running out. That describes an ASE departure years ago which killed the owner and injured everyone else on board. Strong-willed owner, young pilot, at/over gross, snow on the wings and minutes before the airport closed. Without clearing the snow he attempted the takeoff, clipped the fence, flew into the wilderness and crashed.
 
I agree jonnyb, that's exactly what a good pilot would do. But there are plenty that *think* they're doing the right thing by taking unnecessary risk.
 
GypsyPilot said:
The issue isn't the regulars like you. It's the transient guys that show up, often without doing appropriate research. Heck, I've sat on the ramp and watched people botching the Lindz 8 many, many times. It isn't the regulars doing that.
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IMO it is the transient passengers who are a problem. Aspen locals and regulars don't mind the drive from RIL at all.

The LINDZ departure is a funny thing because an operator can get a tailored departure from APG the waives almost all of the restrictions. The fun part about APG that most pilots don't realize is you are guaranteed 100 feet of terrain clearance per mile, in IMC. Of course no one has brought up departing from ASE, with the 7.6% climb gradient until now. I guess because no one has died doing that, that I know of.

I like what John is saying. I strive to be the safe level headed guy that says no. However real world experience has led me to believe that accidents like this will continue to happen at ASE. The fact that it is all preventable is a sad fact that many ignore.


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GypsyPilot said:
I agree jonnyb, that's exactly what a good pilot would do. But there are plenty that *think* they're doing the right thing by taking unnecessary risk.
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You're right. So, maybe if everyone here is determined to actually do what's right and have the nads to correct or refuse to fly with those that don't, we'll be alright, our passengers will be safer and we can actually make a difference.
 
Beef Supreme, the issue with the L8D is when people wait on the right turn to 343 with inbound traffic on final. I've seen multiple times where they takeoff, go straight ahead, and have to be told by tower to turn right. When you're the inbound, it's not a good feeling when somebody is screwing it up.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Beef Supreme, the issue with the L8D is when people wait on the right turn to 343 with inbound traffic on final. I've seen multiple times where they takeoff, go straight ahead, and have to be told by tower to turn right. When you're the inbound, it's not a good feeling when somebody is screwing it up.
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I almost forgot about that, dammit!

Thanks Obama!


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Was wasting time on today's AvWeb email when John King popped up and offered an interesting tailwind landing factoid:

(It's at 3:14 in incase the link doesn't embed at that time)

"Crash energy goes up with the square of the speed." Never heard an exact # put to that. But guess might not be applicable in a shear situation (the video is talking about a tailwind landing when he mentions it).
 
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GypsyPilot said:
That's great, but tomokc and dustoff do have a point. There is real world pressure in this job as a charter or corporate pilot to get the job done. Maybe we cave into that pressure, get away with something, scare ourselves, and learn from it. Or maybe we bend metal, or maybe people get killed. But you have to admit that pressure is there, and we've all faced it. There are a lot of things that irritate me about 121, but NEVER having that pressure is huge.
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No doubt about it; there certainly is pressure. But, I can only hope that me providing real world examples as evidence that it IS possible to say no and still keep your job, that a young, impressionable pilot that eventually reads this thread will understand they can do the same.
 
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