Cae vs. FlightSafety

CoffeeIcePapers said:
I worked there for a while. You’ll be overworked and way underpaid. They’ll force you to work doubles and days off at their convenience. Sometimes they’ll pay an extra $400 for those, but they attached a lot of strings. This info is a few years old, but probably still relevant. Your quality of life and happiness is entirely dependent on your program manager. A JCer manages the Phenom program. He’s a good guy and runs a good program.
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Well that's exactly what I was hoping not to hear. Do you interview with the program manager? If so, I could tell them what I'm looking for and leave it up to them to determine if I'm a good fit.
 
tlove482 said:
Well that's exactly what I was hoping not to hear. Do you interview with the program manager? If so, I could tell them what I'm looking for and leave it up to them to determine if I'm a good fit.
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Again, old info, but I interviewed with my program manager, who was great. Then she left. Then the next guy left. I worked there 9 months full time and around 3 years part time and had 5 different program managers
I also made significantly less than people hired a few months after me. There was a union drive a while back because of all of the shenanigans.
 
DE727UPS said:
How does FSI handle right seat support? Specially interested in CRQ. I'm not looking for a full time instructing job but just curious if they have interns or whatever that can do seat support. I suppose most two pilot crews train together, so the need for seat support might be rare.
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All depends on the customer. Some places have an odd number pilots, therefore seat support happens. From what I’ve been told, you intern ground school and sims to get trained as a seat support. Then after X number or hours of sim sessions as a seat support you’ll get a full type rating. Quite a popular method for those that want to network. I’ve had seat supports that were low time local CFIs but eager to learn and network. Not a bad way to get into corporate flying if the no pay and random schedule works for you.
 
Worked at FSI back in 08-2010. The guys who enjoyed it the most were older retired people who used it for the health insurance and to escape the wife or boredom. Younger guys tend to move on fast so it seems.

Ive trained at both, so I can safely say its monthly, instructor and center dependent. FSI varies from platform to platform, place to place. CAE IN DFW is a nice facility but each program is run differently. Ive had widely different training experiences within the same program just based on the instructor. Some are really great and have loads of experience in the aircraft they teach, others just ramble off book stuff, and may have never actually been in the flight levels.

The best instructors were the ones that had a good bit of experience, but still enjoyed the material and worked hard to make sure people weren't just taught to pass a check ride.

CAE was paying better than FSI a while back, not sure if its flipped again.
 
tlove482 said:
Well that's exactly what I was hoping not to hear. Do you interview with the program manager? If so, I could tell them what I'm looking for and leave it up to them to determine if I'm a good fit.
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I was a PM at FSI for -2.5 years. We had two in that program. During that timeline I had 4 different PM’s opposite me. ( 4 sims managed). Burn out, constant problems. Etc. There was also literally no training for the job. Just one day *poof* pm and now you need to know qms, sms, scheduling requirements for 135/91 and every other national administration. (Like which of your American instructors held dual citizenship with Canada and could check Canadian pilots) or that Systems integration counts towards ground school for some programs and countries, but not others (non conforming training simply because of what we called it lol). Do they need .5 hour briefs or 1 hour to be legal etc.


So much stuff that you’re always playing catch up and making up for things that were missed or need to be fixed etc.

I would do 40 hours in the office and another 15-20 DAL’s.

At our center, the interview was with center management, and you had to “teach” something to all of the PM’s/management, then they picked where you went. You don’t get to interview for a program per say. I mean you may, but if another guy walks off a different program the day of your interview - you may get assigned there.

You can tell them what you want, but, people who do that tend to not get hired. During my tenure anybody who tried to negotiate got the “thank you for your time”

I’m primarily it’s just hard to get qualified people who are willing to give up flying, and most that can hold a medical still will be gone in a year. Working FSI is excellent for networking, you will meet a lot of people.

Re:seat support question above, they track FSI instructors to sim seat support, type them and have them sit right seat. The kids that get it don’t last long, they get hired pretty quick. If you are a young kid looking for a fast track - you’ll get to talk to the pilots and build a solid network there. Quite possibly one of the best corporate opportunities you could ask for. They are often looking for seat support pilots, however they want people that will do 36 hours or part time per week, and don’t care to much about schedule. When I had seat support pilots that were part time, usually I’d move on because I didn’t have the time or capacity to try to work around their schedule.


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CFI A&P said:
All depends on the customer. Some places have an odd number pilots, therefore seat support happens. From what I’ve been told, you intern ground school and sims to get trained as a seat support. Then after X number or hours of sim sessions as a seat support you’ll get a full type rating. Quite a popular method for those that want to network. I’ve had seat supports that were low time local CFIs but eager to learn and network. Not a bad way to get into corporate flying if the no pay and random schedule works for you.
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You get your type rating as soon as the next Instructor needs to be observed giving a type ride by the FAA for qualification… regardless of what they tell you lol.


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TUCKnTRUCK said:
I was a PM at FSI for -2.5 years. We had two in that program. During that timeline I had 4 different PM’s opposite me. ( 4 sims managed). Burn out, constant problems. Etc. There was also literally no training for the job. Just one day *poof* pm and now you need to know qms, sms, scheduling requirements for 135/91 and every other national administration. (Like which of your American instructors held dual citizenship with Canada and could check Canadian pilots) or that Systems integration counts towards ground school for some programs and countries, but not others (non conforming training simply because of what we called it lol). Do they need .5 hour briefs or 1 hour to be legal etc.


So much stuff that you’re always playing catch up and making up for things that were missed or need to be fixed etc.

I would do 40 hours in the office and another 15-20 DAL’s.

At our center, the interview was with center management, and you had to “teach” something to all of the PM’s/management, then they picked where you went. You don’t get to interview for a program per say. I mean you may, but if another guy walks off a different program the day of your interview - you may get assigned there.

You can tell them what you want, but, people who do that tend to not get hired. During my tenure anybody who tried to negotiate got the “thank you for your time”

I’m primarily it’s just hard to get qualified people who are willing to give up flying, and most that can hold a medical still will be gone in a year. Working FSI is excellent for networking, you will meet a lot of people.

Re:seat support question above, they track FSI instructors to sim seat support, type them and have them sit right seat. The kids that get it don’t last long, they get hired pretty quick. If you are a young kid looking for a fast track - you’ll get to talk to the pilots and build a solid network there. Quite possibly one of the best corporate opportunities you could ask for. They are often looking for seat support pilots, however they want people that will do 36 hours or part time per week, and don’t care to much about schedule. When I had seat support pilots that were part time, usually I’d move on because I didn’t have the time or capacity to try to work around their schedule.


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Thanks. That really offers insight into how things work. I'm already out of flying so that won't be a big deal. I'm not enjoying IT as much as I thought I would. I want to get back to something in aviation but not flying.

I'm also getting too old to not enjoy my job so if telling them what I'm looking for in the interview (assuming I can get that far) loses the job for me, I'm fine with that. I'm not looking for a specific aircraft. I have 2 types that they teach, but I'd be fine teaching in any program. My big thing is work/life balance. I'm not looking to do 50-60 hours of work every week. I'm hoping that will be something they can provide.
 
lostplanetairman said:
I have been an instructor for the past 4 years at FSI. Feel free to reach out.
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He IS reaching out...don't take this to PM, we want to now the current status too!
PM if it's personal info, of course.

DropTank said:
What's the salary for those instructors?
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A FSI there is a "recommended" pay scale based on airframe size and complexity. However, management isn't bound by it. They can and do offer well below because their bonuses are tied into what they can save by year's end.
 
dustoff17 said:
He IS reaching out...don't take this to PM, we want to now the current status too!
PM if it's personal info, of course.


A FSI there is a "recommended" pay scale based on airframe size and complexity. However, management isn't bound by it. They can and do offer well below because their bonuses are tied into what they can save by year's end.
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Frequently talking about your current employer on a public forums isn’t the greatest idea - especially if you’re going to be sharing “challenges”

FSI was full of nice people, and was good to me. It’s just a hard job to do, and FSI frequently makes it harder than it has to be.


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dustoff17 said:
A FSI there is a "recommended" pay scale based on airframe size and complexity. However, management isn't bound by it. They can and do offer well below because their bonuses are tied into what they can save by year's end.
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Good. good....

That answerd a question.

Not MY question...

See, you answered the question: "How do they calculate the salary at FSI?"

I asked what IS the salary at FSI (and CAE)
 
DropTank said:
Good. good....

That answerd a question.

Not MY question...

See, you answered the question: "How do they calculate the salary at FSI?"

I asked what IS the salary at FSI (and CAE)
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Good point:

See, you didn't understand the answer provided. I'll break it down:

Since there is NO PUBLISHED, set, pay scale at FSI as I answered while, apparently, not answering YOUR question. And since my above non-answer to YOUR question referenced a scale THEY reference with regards to pay that is a "recommendation ONLY" based on aircraft size and complexity. And since they can offer either above or below the "recommended" pay scale depending on who you're related to or know within the Company, YOU'RE question can ONLY be answered during YOUR job offer session.

Apply and find out!
 
DropTank said:
Good. good....

That answerd a question.

Not MY question...

See, you answered the question: "How do they calculate the salary at FSI?"

I asked what IS the salary at FSI (and CAE)
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They had a published pay rate when my husband was hired. It’s six figures and nice benefits. They pay increases have been regular and ample.
 
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