C525 missing over Lake Erie

Inverted25 said:
Not sure what you saw I live on Lake Erie just west of cleveland and lake is not frozen. The western base may have a skin layer it's much shallower there. Lake Erie is very shallow overall. Probably 50 feet deep in the area it went down. Maybe a little more
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We were west of Cleveland just about over Sandusky.
 
Plata said:
Do you know that for a fact, or are you just repeating a rumor?
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It's a rumor of course, for three reasons:
1) That's what we do here when it comes to accidents
2) My source is involved in the accident investigation and had to speak "off the record".
And most importantly,
3) I wrote "I heard that the pilot in this accident had <400 hours. Now this might be <400 turbojet but my understanding is that it's <400TT."
If I knew for a fact, and was able to disclose the source, I would have indicated so....
 
If that's the case then a "mentor" pilot should be coming out of the woodwork soon since I can't imagine an insurance company on this planet underwriting a 400hr PPL to fly a citation single pilot.
 
milleR said:
If that's the case then a "mentor" pilot should be coming out of the woodwork soon since I can't imagine an insurance company on this planet underwriting a 400hr PPL to fly a citation single pilot.
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Unless the company is like the last two I've worked for that self-insured. Hell the last guy I flew with had less TT than that!!
 
I have zero time in anything this complex, but the fact that a single pilot, low time PPL is able to fly a jet capable of 450 knots and 45k feet is mildly terrifying.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I have zero time in anything this complex, but the fact that a single pilot, low time PPL is able to fly a jet capable of 450 knots and 45k feet is mildly terrifying.
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Honestly, they build and market this product for exactly that. They want to to be no more difficult to fly than an piston multi. In a way, it's simpler to fly than some of the more complicated piston twins.
 
milleR said:
Good point, I hadn't thought of that.
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Certainly not stating that this is SMART but it does happen......

KLB said:
Honestly, they build and market this product for exactly that. They want to to be no more difficult to fly than an piston multi. In a way, it's simpler to fly than some of the more complicated piston twins.
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Agreed!
I took my training and ATP check in a Seminole and have flown 11 different multi-engine airplanes (all either turboprop or turbojet). The new 525s are the most simple and most pilot-friendly aircraft I've flown (and I have about 1,000hrs of single pilot time in the series). VERY easy to manage, even when things start to go wrong...

The tragedy of THIS accident is not that the pilot was low time, new to the aircraft, was flying at night over water, and had only a PPL (?) but rather that the pilot was low time, new to the aircraft, was flying at night over water, and had only a PPL (?) AND was allowed to carry passengers.
 
So. Am I a jerk for thinking that the estate of the deceased pilot should pay for the recovery?


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BEEF SUPREME said:
So. Am I a jerk for thinking that the estate of the deceased pilot should pay for the recovery?


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Well, I won't call you a "jerk," but I'd note that, generally speaking, those of us in emergency services respond based on need (often because of stupid or careless choices). The relatively small financial cost of our response may be worth far less, overall, than the value of the lives lost (and their overall potential), whatever the cause.

Sometimes we win and get the "save;" often we can't do anything but recover the bodies.

Leave it alone. The dollars don't matter to those of us who pick up the pieces. Your taxes, or mine, won't go down measurably in any circumstance, and the cost - humanly speaking - will be no less.
 
Not to throw fuel on the fire of "who should pay," but it is an interesting debate. No case is better at exemplifying it than Steve Fossett.

After he disappeared in Nevada the state spent something like $2 million looking for him. About that time I had my plane in a community hangar in Klamath Falls, Oregon just across from the California border. Suddenly I got a new hangar mate....a Citation X with record breaking flights written all over the nose. It was Fossett's plane, and I normally never would have thought twice about it but having served in the Coast Guard and remembering stories of how much money the Australian Coast Guard spent fishing Fossett out of the ocean after he crashed his balloon got me thinking about the ethics of rich people pushing public debt for SAR missions.

Generally I see not many better places to spend public money than the safety net of emergency services. Iceland probably does it best with dedicated volunteers, but domestically I'd rather see money go to the Coast Guard than the Navy. The SAR component of local police departments is also miniscule compared to the general budget. These are generally large returns on the invested money when property and lives can be saved proactively. This does not, however, explain the moral hazard of rich guys going out and getting in trouble who then need to be saved at great cost.
 
Here in Arizona, we have the “stupid motorist law” which states that if you go out and try and drive through a standing body of water when it rains and get yourself swamped, you’ll get charged for your own rescue.

That being said, I don’t agree with charging the estate for recovery operations. That’s what your tax dollars are for and it provides real world experience to the USCG and whoever else is participating. I don’t think he took off that night intending to crash.
 
We pay for emergency services and the aftermath through our taxes, just like we do for roads, parks and other public stuff. Never forget that.

I pay my school board assessment every year, which is substantial, and I don't have any kids.

Government is like insurance. Sure, there are some high profile outliers, but if it happens to you, you'll be pretty glad you have it.

Richman
 
I'm pretty sure that it is a private salvage company that is doing most of this recovery. Assisted by the USCG and Cleveland PD. The USCG is likely not equipped for this type of salvage in 50 feet of water--could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

My guess is that the insurance company is paying the private salvage company.

I'm sure the family of the two fatally unsuspecting and trusting pax will rightfully sue the pilot's estate.
 
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