OK MSHunter, I am finally done with my real work, and ready to come back and answer questions here. I really was tempted to just let this all slide, since it looks like it died down, but chose not to.
I wasnt sure which post of yours I wanted to start with, so I will just respond to this one,and then go back and make a few extra comments to some other folks.
You started with "With all that inertia out on the wings it's nearly impossible to recover in a twin"
Then you came back with " Let an airplane get slow, and develop into a spin, rather than just go incipient, and the recovery with all that extra weight away from the center of rotation become very diccifult to slow down" I assume you mean difficult here.
So we went from "nearly impossible" to "difficult" in about 2 posts.
Then you went into the dick lecture, which was nice. So since you started that, here is my response. I tried to tell you my background as a DER Test Pilot, not to brag (if you want to read my whole bio, go to
www.mmoaviation.com - thanks
Kristie), but to show that I wasn't some 20 hour teenage student pilot that thinks they know everything and has to answer every post whether they add something or not, or regardless of if they truly know what they are talking about (wow, what a run on sentence, no wonder I am an engineer and not an english lit major). I would think that maybe you would compare your own experience and think before posting as to whether you wanted to ask questions instead of attacking, as maybe you could learn something. Believe it or not, there are many experts on this board, from FAA Doctors to Engineers to fighter pilots to Bush pilots and yes, the occasional test pilot. A lot of us don't post much because we don't like getting drawn into the mud, but we have a lot to offer if you listen. In many ways, you sound like my 9 year old son who tries to tell me I don't know how to do math. In my job I often have to certify that I have "Not used exceptional piloting skills" to achieve the test results. Have you ever had to use that line? So can you just accept that just maybe I know more than you on this subject?
Now, back to the topic on hand. There is nothing inherent with a twin engine airplane that makes it impossible to recover from a spin. Period. In many ways, their increased inertia helps prevent it as do there relatively larger rudders. Many other posters, 22left and inverted, prominent among them, were quick to point out p factor and gyroscopic forces. They are completely correct that these can help get the plane into a spin and keep it there. That is also why the very first step of spin recovery is Power to idle, to remove these forces as much as possible. I will retract slightly that the weight plays no role, because it can, but its role is way down the list of things that matter. Spin recovery is based primarily on CG, tail design and rudder effectiveness, and most importantly on proper procedure. Few airplanes will enter into a spin without aggravated control inputs. Yes, many airplanes will not recover from a spin in some or any condition, but there are just as many singles as twins that share this.
Now, to the real topic of this post, the crash of a 421. Again, I mention that I own a 421 not to brag, but to show that I might have experience that would be useful. I dont want to speculate on what the cause was, as that is up to the NTSB, but I am very interested to try to ensure I don't encounter the same thing. It is always easy to learn from others misfortunes.
The airplane was in a descent, in likely very turbulent air. It was probably pretty light, with just one pilot on board. There are almost no 421 pilots that descend at idle due to the geared engines, so there was probably at least 50% power on. He would be descending at a very low angle of attack. I dont know if he had spoilers or not, which could effect the situation a bit. Even assuming he leveled off, he should have had enough power to maintain level flight and not stall Yes, he could well have had a gust upset that led to a stall, but it is unlikely that alone would cause a spin, without some other input. So, I am very curious as to what happened and why. From the reports, the weather was almost certainly a factor. I hope they can figure it out.
You can feel free to continue this either here or via PM. After I finish answering a couple other posts on this I will go back to lurking as it is much easier
jim
Well I appoligize. IMO, his post came off as a dick, so I said so. But at Doug, I have already sent him an appolgy, because you brought it to my attention that that post came off that way, and that wasn't it's intent.
But, when someone comes across as a dick, and admits that that is the way the post is, that's okay because? Just looking for some fair and unbiased moderation.
I am more than willing to continue this via PM's, as I feel this isn't the thread to discuss this in if you'd prefer.
