Buying an airplane

Ok, if you're going to get a tube and fabric airplane, I'd get a PA12, you can probably get one for around the same price you'd spend on a nicer 172, you can go damn near anywhere you want, plus you can also have something that you can build up and perfect over the years (like if you get the original one without flaps, you can add flaps, or extended baggage, or the baby bushwheel, etc.) You're looking at essentially a "3 place cub" which will let you do quite a bit. That or a citabria would be cool too, and you can get those for fairly cheap.

If you're not sold on something tailwheel then definitely the cherokee if you can stand to fly the hershey bar wing around for the rest of your days. Its a good honest airplane in all of its incarnations, and is less complicated than a paper airplane to work on from what I understand.
 
ppragman said:
Ok, if you're going to get a tube and fabric airplane, I'd get a PA12, you can probably get one for around the same price you'd spend on a nicer 172, you can go damn near anywhere you want, plus you can also have something that you can build up and perfect over the years (like if you get the original one without flaps, you can add flaps, or extended baggage, or the baby bushwheel, etc.) You're looking at essentially a "3 place cub" which will let you do quite a bit. That or a citabria would be cool too, and you can get those for fairly cheap.

If you're not sold on something tailwheel then definitely the cherokee if you can stand to fly the hershey bar wing around for the rest of your days. Its a good honest airplane in all of its incarnations, and is less complicated than a paper airplane to work on from what I understand.
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A good PA-12 would suck for this I think - but just because of the price they command. I love the PA12 and agree with you, I'm just afraid the price would be too high (as compared to a comparable Pacer) and for his use the Stinson may make the most sense. Completely love the PA12 though with a 150hp Lycoming (that's the only kind I have time in).

Beagle - seriously look at the Pacer. Great support network (Short Wing Piper Club) and I know people that have tweaked theirs with some mods and achieved better speed (and it wasn't a slouch to begin with). Jim Younkin (built the Mullicoupes, Mr. Mulligan replica, Travel Air Mystery Ship replica) has a Pacer that he developed some speed mods for and is absolutely kick ass. Neat thing about Younkin is that he is incredibly helpful to others. I wouldn't let SwissPilots bosses pirep weigh too much on your mind - frankly for the mission that was described (Andes Mts at gross) I'm not sure any airplane is going to be great other than a Pilatus, etc.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Devil's advocate- you live in Florida, dude. Get a high wing airplane, whatever you get- sightseeing is much better that way. Me personally? I'd get myself a nice C-182. I flew a 182 for a few dozen hours and loved every minute.
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I have nothing against the 182, but it is more expensive to operate, I don't need the range, and I would use it 99% VFR anyway. The reality is, whenever I need that - I can rent a G1000 Turbo 182 or a 206 across the street from my house for $240/hour. For the 10 hours a year I might need it, renting is a better deal.

Most of the time, it will only be me in the airplane, or maybe one passenger. I'd rather have the better fuel economy and lower operating costs, since that means I would fly it more often.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I have nothing against the 182, but it is more expensive to operate, I don't need the range, and I would use it 99% VFR anyway. The reality is, whenever I need that - I can rent a G1000 Turbo 182 or a 206 across the street from my house for $240/hour. For the 10 hours a year I might need it, renting is a better deal.

Most of the time, it will only be me in the airplane, or maybe one passenger. I'd rather have the better fuel economy and lower operating costs, since that means I would fly it more often.
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True dat. Wow $240/hr? Four years ago, the flying club where I rented planes rented a C-182 Skylane with extended range tanks and conventional IFR stack for $85/hr, wet.

Times have changed. Oy vey.
 
Good luck, DB.
If you have any questions about Cherokee ownership drop me a PM. I have a pa28-180.
 
WacoFan said:
A good PA-12 would suck for this I think - but just because of the price they command. I love the PA12 and agree with you, I'm just afraid the price would be too high (as compared to a comparable Pacer) and for his use the Stinson may make the most sense. Completely love the PA12 though with a 150hp Lycoming (that's the only kind I have time in).

Beagle - seriously look at the Pacer. Great support network (Short Wing Piper Club) and I know people that have tweaked theirs with some mods and achieved better speed (and it wasn't a slouch to begin with). Jim Younkin (built the Mullicoupes, Mr. Mulligan replica, Travel Air Mystery Ship replica) has a Pacer that he developed some speed mods for and is absolutely kick ass. Neat thing about Younkin is that he is incredibly helpful to others. I wouldn't let SwissPilots bosses pirep weigh too much on your mind - frankly for the mission that was described (Andes Mts at gross) I'm not sure any airplane is going to be great other than a Pilatus, etc.
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This is very true, all of the piper ragwings are a little over valued right now except the pacer.

Tangent,

My buddy has a PA14 he's restoring (it might be done by now) I wanna drive that thing around. I love cubs.
 
ppragman said:
This is very true, all of the piper ragwings are a little over valued right now except the pacer.

Tangent,

My buddy has a PA14 he's restoring (it might be done by now) I wanna drive that thing around. I love cubs.
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Pipers are over-valued in my opinion. I have a friend who's restoring a Vagabond and his dad built up a really nice 90hp (plus) Continental C90. Should be a fun ride.
 
somewhat :offtopic:... but still
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Ok someone already dropped the hint but you blew right over it.

The coolest airplane in your category and price point is an AA5A Cheetah. They can be had for Mid $30's. Many have high compression STC's effectively rasing the HP to 160. You look like a fighter jock taxing out with the canopy open enjoying cool fresh air while Cessna and especially Piper/Diamond/Cirrus drivers swealter in the heat. You can fly low and slow with the canopy open to get that open cockpit feeling or you can true out around 125 kts or so.

If you could stretch the budget another 10-15k you'd be in 180hp Tiger country where youd true around 135-140 on 10 GPH with the low cost to own of fixed gear and fixed prop. Early Mooneys are only a tad faster and will cost a lot more to insure and have more expensive systems to maintain.

Before you buy, do yourself a favor and find a Cheetah you can fly.

I'd offer that the Cherokee line would be a distant second for what you're looking for. Nearly everyone has some Cessna time so they are well known and their prices show it. It seems if you found similarly equipped planes, the Cherokee would sell for +5% less than the similar Cessna. I owned a Warrior 151 and have flown 140's, 150's and 180's. The 180 is a nice stable aircraft with decent load hauling capablity.
 
Tiger815 said:
Ok someone already dropped the hint but you blew right over it.

The coolest airplane in your category and price point is an AA5A Cheetah. They can be had for Mid $30's. Many have high compression STC's effectively rasing the HP to 160. You look like a fighter jock taxing out with the canopy open enjoying cool fresh air while Cessna and especially Piper/Diamond/Cirrus drivers swealter in the heat. You can fly low and slow with the canopy open to get that open cockpit feeling or you can true out around 125 kts or so.

If you could stretch the budget another 10-15k you'd be in 180hp Tiger country where youd true around 135-140 on 10 GPH with the low cost to own of fixed gear and fixed prop. Early Mooneys are only a tad faster and will cost a lot more to insure and have more expensive systems to maintain.

Before you buy, do yourself a favor and find a Cheetah you can fly.

I'd offer that the Cherokee line would be a distant second for what you're looking for. Nearly everyone has some Cessna time so they are well known and their prices show it. It seems if you found similarly equipped planes, the Cherokee would sell for +5% less than the similar Cessna. I owned a Warrior 151 and have flown 140's, 150's and 180's. The 180 is a nice stable aircraft with decent load hauling capablity.
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:yeahthat:

Years ago, I almost bought an AA5 Traveler, the first n that series. They're supposed to be tons of fun. I hope this airplane wins just so you can take me up in it sometime. :D
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I hadn't even considered a Stinson 108 or a Cheetah. Glad that I asked, as both are on my list to look at now.

182 is out for the reasons mentioned. A Mooney is probably out too, unless Murdoughnut gets a promotion and wants to go in on it ;)
 
If you go look at a 108 and I'm around, let me know. I'd like to go check one out too....
 
Ill add, look for a plane that already has the stc done for unleaded fuel. I keep hearing grumblings about the epa, and banishing 100ll. Rather than being stuck with the bill for that stc, let somebody else pay.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Ill add, look for a plane that already has the stc done for unleaded fuel. I keep hearing grumblings about the epa, and banishing 100ll. Rather than being stuck with the bill for that stc, let somebody else pay.
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What good is a MoGas STC if you can't find Mogas without ethanol? Lots of places it is nearly impossible to find it, making those STC's worthless.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
100ll is going away... not 100, or other octane unleaded aviation fuels.
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I've never seen anything other than 100LL sold. 100 is higher lead than 100LL, and isn't sold anymore, AFAIK. What unleaded aviation is available today? There is none 80/87 isn't made here anymore, 82UL isn't made anymore. The only non-kerosene based fuels I've seen at airports are 100LL and MoGas.
 
Right. Phase out 100LL and what do you have left? You can run diesel, or mogas. Just because it's not there now, doesn't mean that it won't be later. 91/96 UL is actually cleared to run in most engines no modifications required though.

I would guess that you can look forward to swapping in a diesel, or running mogas. Most mogas is made without oxygenates pre mixed, as the amounts allowable vary by region. As it is Ethanol is stupid. Becuase of it, the Gas tank on my bike no longer fits properly. For a long time in NH if you got 93 at the pump, there was nothing mixed in... I'm not sure anymore though.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Right. Phase out 100LL and what do you have left? You can run diesel, or mogas. Just because it's not there now, doesn't mean that it won't be later. 91/96 UL is actually cleared to run in most engines no modifications required though.

I would guess that you can look forward to swapping in a diesel, or running mogas.
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Or Rotax. They'll let you run E10, as long as the airframe manufacture approves it. Whatever ends up replacing 100LL is going to cost more and be overkill for 75% of the airplanes out there.
 
I wouldn't put E10 in anything if I had a choice, I doubt any of the big GA makers will ever allow it. It does a number on anything rubber, plastic or composite. Fuel lines swell, and weaken, etc. It's bad crap.

That being said, If you get one thats already ok for mogas, then you prob. won't have to worry about it when 100ll is gone.
 
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