Buying a plane (under 60k)

J

jskibo

Done
I got a green light form the Mrs. to start looking for an plane (our first) and looking for some advice.

I have about 135 hours, finishing up my instrument and looking to build time to get to commercial (eventual CFI / CFII / MEI in the future). At this point looking to instruct part time and maybe full time when I retire in 10 - 12 years.

We have a lot of kids (6, 5 at home in the summer, 4 the rest of the year), but I'm not sure I would make use of a 6 place enough to justify the ownership costs.

Plane would be used for time building, maybe 7 - 10 trips a year (Grand rapids to KC, SoCal, KY, FL.....family and friend visits). Somewhere in the area of 150 to 200 hours a year at this point.

Would like to keep the budget under 60k.

Would love a twin like a C310, but not sure I could justify the ownership costs, C210 has the seats, but again on ownership costs.

Needs: Decent IFR panel, minimum 4 place (not 2 place plus gas and a purse), something with reasonable maintenance cost (no exotic one off engines or airframes) and insurance costs (for a low time guy like me). 600nm range or better.

Desires: Multi would be great, but again cost of insurance and acquisition. 6 place, panel GPS, Autopilot, greater range, complex.

I'm currently renting C172's and Warriors at $70 hr wet (+$40 a month), though availability is an issue unless I plan out 3+ weeks in advance or just want 2 hours here and there. I could step up to the Arrow as well for $93 hr wet (+$50 a month, and another $300 buy in) which less people fly. So I am willing to pay more on an hourly basis for overall ownership costs, just to have the availability, but not twice what I am paying now.

Looked at bit at Warrior II's Arrows, Archers.....don't know what would work best.

Any suggestions?
 
Bang for your buck, you can't beat a PA28 or 32 series, IMHO. Cherokee 6 or fixed gear Toga might be at the upper end of your price range, but if you can find a PA28-235 or 236 that would fit your mission just about perfectly.

A 182 or an old 172 with a Penn yann or air plains 180 horse engine and a gross weight increase would also fit the bill, but I think you'll find that for similar age, airframe time, and condition you'll pay a premium for these aircraft over the pipers.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_333611_Cherokee+235+.html
There ya go. Full IFR, low time engine and prop, auto gas STC, and will probably hold full fuel, full seats, and as much other crap as you can physically cram in the cabin.
 
Get a 200HP Arrow II. Right In your price range. It would be best if you could find one that no longer has the 500 hour AD on the gear.

My father's arrow did 135 true @ about 9.5 gal/hr. The best part of getting an arrow is that you can use it to train for the rest of your certs. An arrow is a good stepping stone to a C310 as insurance will love the retract time.

600nm in an arrow would be a stretch, but that would be the case for most aircraft under $60k.

Other than a C-182, insurance will be expensive in a high performance aircraft at your current flight time.

If the aircraft fits at least 80 percent of your mission you have done well on your purchase.
 
If you have your heart set on a twin I would suggest looking into the Piper Twin Comanche. You could probably find one for around 60k decently equipped. They true out around 150-160kts, burn about 16gph and can go more then 800 miles. Great useful load too.
 
Is it better to look for one with a great Panel (430W / 530W, etc...) and less TBO or better engine and a panel I may have to put money into?

My thought would be buy the panel I want as I would get less of a return replacing a GPS / Radio stack* than taking a 2400 hour engine back to new. Your expereience?

All great plane selections so far, hadn't even considered the Dakota or Twin Comanche


* I do manage Avionics / Mission systems Programs for a living, but I doubt a discount on Stores management and release systems or Interface Blanking Units would come in handy with a Single or Light Twin :)
 
jskibo said:
Is it better to look for one with a great Panel (430W / 530W, etc...) and less TBO or better engine and a panel I may have to put money into?

My thought would be buy the panel I want as I would get less of a return replacing a GPS / Radio stack* than taking a 2400 hour engine back to new. Your expereience?

All great plane selections so far, hadn't even considered the Dakota or Twin Comanche


* I do manage Avionics / Mission systems Programs for a living, but I doubt a discount on Stores management and release systems or Interface Blanking Units would come in handy with a Single or Light Twin :)
Click to expand...


I'm not expert, but for a single, it seems like it would be a wash. For a twin (a-la Twin Comanche/C310), I think it's be better to find one with low time engines. The Twin Comanche is a great airplane, but with your mission, you couldn't fit all your people in it. It's have to be at least a 310. They are cheap to acquire, and if you keep it throttled back, ownership could be affordable. You might be able to get it on a leaseback to offset some costs, or find a partner.
 
Second the Arrow. There is no cheaper way from point A to point B. Parts are cheap (relatively speaking), and plentiful.

Stay away from anything with Beechcraft in the name unless you like writing big checks for small parts.
 
trafficinsight said:
Second the Arrow. There is no cheaper way from point A to point B. Parts are cheap (relatively speaking), and plentiful.

Stay away from anything with Beechcraft in the name unless you like writing big checks for small parts.
Click to expand...
Unless he really wants the retractable gear to get his CFI, wouldn't he be better off with one of the fixed gear Cherokee family?
 
trafficinsight said:
Second the Arrow. There is no cheaper way from point A to point B. Parts are cheap (relatively speaking), and plentiful.

Stay away from anything with Beechcraft in the name unless you like writing big checks for small parts.
Click to expand...
The man speaketh the truth. The "B" in "Beechcraft" stands for "bushing."

That said, I love my Beechcraft.
 
Roger said:
Unless he really wants the retractable gear to get his CFI, wouldn't he be better off with one of the fixed gear Cherokee family?
Click to expand...

I'd like a Cherokee six someday ;)

I wish there was a fixed gear 200hp Cherokee, there is the turbo Dakota, but run, run far ;)

at any rate, a 200hp arrow 1 or 2 will lift 1200lbs"ish" (YAMV of course) at 130kts indicated on 10gph, for my trips between San Jose and San Diego it was cheaper than a 172.

Once I saw 211 over the ground in it, oh happy day ;)


Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
 
trafficinsight said:
I'd like a Cherokee six someday ;)

I wish there was a fixed gear 200hp Cherokee, there is the turbo Dakota, but run, run far ;)

at any rate, a 200hp arrow 1 or 2 will lift 1200lbs"ish" (YAMV of course) at 130kts indicated on 10gph, for my trips between San Jose and San Diego it was cheaper than a 172.

Once I saw 211 over the ground in it, oh happy day ;)


Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Click to expand...
Didn't realize the arrow had that much useful load, that's much better than I expiated. That Dakota I linked to had 1400 lbs useful load. That is full tanks and 4 220 lb people. A-mazing.
 
Roger said:
Didn't realize the arrow had that much useful load, that's much better than I expiated. That Dakota I linked to had 1400 lbs useful load. That is full tanks and 4 220 lb people. A-mazing.
Click to expand...

I think with all the speed mods and a fresh coat of wax you could probably get 140 out of it ;)



Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
 
trafficinsight said:
at any rate, a 200hp arrow 1 or 2 will lift 1200lbs"ish" (YAMV of course) at 130kts indicated on 10gph, for my trips between San Jose and San Diego it was cheaper than a 172.
Click to expand...

An Arrow I is going to be 180hp. An Arrow II with IFR is about 1650lbs empty, max weight is 2650lbs.
 
fholbert said:
An Arrow I is going to be 180hp. An Arrow II with IFR is about 1650lbs empty, max weight is 2650lbs.
Click to expand...

So me at 220, wife at 120, and a couple kids around 80 should give me full tanks and some bag space, in the Arrow.

Cherokee 6 would be great and almost went halves on one when I lived on a private airport in OK (2OK2). A bit out of my price point as a sole owner though.

How much more MX and annual costs on a gear swinging arrow vs a say Dakota?
 
jskibo said:
How much more MX and annual costs on a gear swinging arrow vs a say Dakota?
Click to expand...
Trafficinsight can give you better numbers because IIRC he takes care of an arrow or 2, but it doesn't take long to jack the airplane and swing the gear, and the arrow gear as far as I know is fairly reliable... Certainly less mx intensive than, say, a twin Cessna or a Beech.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top