Buy airplane for training or not ?
- Thread starter ayseaf
- Start date
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
If you need to build hours towards your commercial for instance and you have money to buy a cheap airplane then yes it will save you a lot of money.
When your done building hours then you can sell the plane for the same price you bought it.
When your done building hours then you can sell the plane for the same price you bought it.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think buying your own plane is a great way to go. You'll run into problems getting the multi time, but there are ways to go where that's not a big deal (IFR 135 freight). In the end, you'll be able to sell for nearly what you paid, or more, it's really hard to say. I buy high and sell low out of lack of patience. Ebay is great.
You can get your IFR and learn the commercial mans. in a properly equipped Cessna 150/152. You'll have to pay for the complex/multi time to get the commercial rating and get the mins for 135 freight.
If the regionals are your goal. I think the mins standards to get hired are about to go way up. You won't be able to "buy your way in" al la ATP much longer. The regionals will ask for, and demand, a more experienced aviator.
You can get your IFR and learn the commercial mans. in a properly equipped Cessna 150/152. You'll have to pay for the complex/multi time to get the commercial rating and get the mins for 135 freight.
If the regionals are your goal. I think the mins standards to get hired are about to go way up. You won't be able to "buy your way in" al la ATP much longer. The regionals will ask for, and demand, a more experienced aviator.
BillH
New Member
If you buy an airplane, the avionics inside are far more important than the looks on the outside. Also an airplane that is flying everyday with 2000 hours on the engine smoh is better than an airplane with 200 hours smoh and has been sitting for 2 years not running. These things are maintenance nightmares. Will cost you minimally 1000$ to fix a flight instrument if stops working. DG's, AI's, Turn coordinators, they all go south all the time. Never buy Factory refurb, they will not last.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Id say the engine is even more important. make sure you find something with the lowest engine time. Overhauls are very expensive!
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
When people come to me with this question, I always tell them, by all means, do it if you can. I had a chance to do it when I started flying. I could have bought a 152 at the start of my training, but I didn't (of course, that shiny new 172SP with the KLN89B GPS was calling me on the ramp).
It is a buyer's market out there right now. Search far and wide for the airplane that fits your budget AND all of your requirements (engine, prop, avionics, etc etc). Don't be afraid to make an offer of 10-15% less than what the seller is asking.
Michael
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Plus, airplanes are cool, and shopping for airplanes is fun, too. 
I've been thinking about this a LOT lately. Seems a lot of people are parting with their toys. I'm seeing prices drop on boats and some used motorcycles, although on other bikes prices are going up as people ditch the H2 for two-wheeled efficiency.
I think I want an IFR airplane (which makes it pricier) and maybe even something complex...old Mooney or Bellanca Super Viking comes to mind. Although I'd end up financing the plane, it would just be a portion, and I'm pretty sure I could fly it a few hundred hours and sell it later....and get the ownership thing out of my system.
I've been thinking about this a LOT lately. Seems a lot of people are parting with their toys. I'm seeing prices drop on boats and some used motorcycles, although on other bikes prices are going up as people ditch the H2 for two-wheeled efficiency.
I think I want an IFR airplane (which makes it pricier) and maybe even something complex...old Mooney or Bellanca Super Viking comes to mind. Although I'd end up financing the plane, it would just be a portion, and I'm pretty sure I could fly it a few hundred hours and sell it later....and get the ownership thing out of my system.
BillH
New Member
Read what I said carefully. Just because an engine is low time, does not mean its a good engine. If an engine has 200 hours SMOH, but has been sitting parked for 6 months not running, it might as well have 5,000 hours on it. The rings can rust, the cylinders can go to hell, and WHAM, your looking at a new overhaul. An engine with 3000 hours flying every day with good compression could go another 1000 hours before needing an overhaul.
TBO is simply a manufacturer suggested time. A 200 hours engine that is flying every day at a flight school, if properly broken in, yes that would be a good buy, but not if it was not properly broken in!
Just because an engine has good compression does not mean the cylinders will not get blackballed.
Buying a used airplane is like gambling, maybe you'll get lucky, maybe not.
I already know of 2 cases when an engine had low time SMOH, sat for a long time not running and the airplane needed a new engine.
BillH
New Member
Plus, airplanes are cool, and shopping for airplanes is fun, too.
I've been thinking about this a LOT lately. Seems a lot of people are parting with their toys. I'm seeing prices drop on boats and some used motorcycles, although on other bikes prices are going up as people ditch the H2 for two-wheeled efficiency.
I think I want an IFR airplane (which makes it pricier) and maybe even something complex...old Mooney or Bellanca Super Viking comes to mind. Although I'd end up financing the plane, it would just be a portion, and I'm pretty sure I could fly it a few hundred hours and sell it later....and get the ownership thing out of my system.
Beech Bonanza?
SatelliteBeachPilot
Well-Known Member
SOOOO much more goes into buying an airplane, it can be easily compared to buying a home rather than a car.
Using a broker if you have never purchased a plane is not a bad idea, as long as you trust the broker is going to do you right. Also, if you have any friends with airplanes, have them help you.
Another good thing to do is buy a plane with 1 or 2 other pilots who need to train as well. This way you can split all cost, plane's require much more money than putting gas and oil into the engine.
Many people will tell you the 2 best days of owning a plane are the same as owning a boat.......the day you buy it & the day you sell it.....
I almost bought a 152 to build hours but when it came down to it, after all the cost of storing it at my airport, maintenence, the chance that something major could come up, the price of fuel, etc.....also taking into account with my work schedule now and the little amount of hours I can fly, it would only save me around $10 per flight hour to own a 152 rather than rent one from my FBO.
Sure you can sell it for close to what you bought it for after putting a few hundred hours on the engine which sounds nice, but you can't forget about all the cost of owning it during that time....
Using a broker if you have never purchased a plane is not a bad idea, as long as you trust the broker is going to do you right. Also, if you have any friends with airplanes, have them help you.
Another good thing to do is buy a plane with 1 or 2 other pilots who need to train as well. This way you can split all cost, plane's require much more money than putting gas and oil into the engine.
Many people will tell you the 2 best days of owning a plane are the same as owning a boat.......the day you buy it & the day you sell it.....
I almost bought a 152 to build hours but when it came down to it, after all the cost of storing it at my airport, maintenence, the chance that something major could come up, the price of fuel, etc.....also taking into account with my work schedule now and the little amount of hours I can fly, it would only save me around $10 per flight hour to own a 152 rather than rent one from my FBO.
Sure you can sell it for close to what you bought it for after putting a few hundred hours on the engine which sounds nice, but you can't forget about all the cost of owning it during that time....
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Good points all around.
Some people do put a high value on the flexibility with regard to scheduling, etc, though. Owning yourself allows you to fly WHEN you want. To some, that's worth a little extra...
Just sayin.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
It'd be nice, but too much money. I've priced em' out, and from what I can tell (may be wrong - don't know much about airplane shopping but I like reading ads
) there's a premium on those. I can potentially get something similar for less money.
SatelliteBeachPilot
Well-Known Member
That is very true. It's nice to have a plane to hop over to the Bahamas and not worry about when you have to have it back.
Weather gives you enough to worry about, time frames don't help......
any one thinking to buy too can share with me to buy one and build the times together ? if any one intersted email me at ayseaf@gmail.com .
Schedule was the greatest advantage of ownership for me. I usually had a limited schedule for flying and if I wanted to take a weekend trip, maybe log 5 hours of cross-country, I didn't have to worry about rental nightmares.
BillH, don't overanalyze the engine. All you can do is all you can do. A person that flies regularly and services the engine with oil changes at regualar intervals has done all they can do to maintain the engine. Trust me, you would rather have that light to moderately used engine with a couple hundred hours since major overhaul over one that's approaching a top overhaul or major overhaul anyday.
The best advice I can give to a newbie in aviation wanting to buy an airplane is research, research, research. Understand what's involved with ownership -- required inspections, fixed costs, operating costs, particulars of your model. And, yes, fixing one is usually big dollars. I advise you make friends with a good A&P that knows your situation. Hope this helps.
BillH, don't overanalyze the engine. All you can do is all you can do. A person that flies regularly and services the engine with oil changes at regualar intervals has done all they can do to maintain the engine. Trust me, you would rather have that light to moderately used engine with a couple hundred hours since major overhaul over one that's approaching a top overhaul or major overhaul anyday.
The best advice I can give to a newbie in aviation wanting to buy an airplane is research, research, research. Understand what's involved with ownership -- required inspections, fixed costs, operating costs, particulars of your model. And, yes, fixing one is usually big dollars. I advise you make friends with a good A&P that knows your situation. Hope this helps.
BillH
New Member
Well I think the saying is "Good Luck".