Busted class B....

[Skylimit]

I talked to a pilot yesterday at a fly-in who told me about an incident that happened to him a number of years ago. He was flying VFR on an airway that was going to clip the edge of Class B airspace. He was receiving flight following and was talking to Tampa approach. He said he wasn't thinking about the upcoming class B and hadn't received a clearance through it when the controller told him to fly 10 degrees left for skydiver activity. He did so, and then later started thinking that he more than likely had clipped the Bravo and the controller let him off the hook by giving him the instructions that put him further into class B. Nothing ever became of the incident. The question I have is, did the instruction by the controller to turn 10 degrees left actually give him clearance into the Bravo even though he didn't hear the words "cleared into Bravo"? Thoughts?

 

[NovemberEcho]

Technically, no it did not give him a clearance into the B. You MUST hear “cleared into the Bravo” to be cleared into the Bravo. Now, realistically, having been guilty of giving VFR’s a vector into the Bravo I either just forgot to issue the clearance or didn’t have my B map up and didn’t realize it would clip it. No controller would ever give a pilot grief over this. But, as a pilot, if in doubt just ask. “Verify n1234 is cleared into the B?”

 

[msmspilot]

And with ADS-B and the snitch patch, it's more likely now than ever that the controller didn't care, but the manager who reviewed the tape will. Prior to ADS-B, there's a good chance no one would have ever checked.

 

[NovemberEcho]

And with ADS-B and the snitch patch, it's more likely now than ever that the controller didn't care, but the manager who reviewed the tape will. Prior to ADS-B, there's a good chance no one would have ever checked.

They’d have to tape check every VFR aircraft that goes into the B to see if they had a clearance or not. This isn’t what the snitch is for. It’s for loss of sep events and runway incursion type stuff.

however, with ADSB if you bust the Bravo while not talking to ATC we def know who you are now.

 

[msmspilot]

They’d have to tape check every VFR aircraft that goes into the B to see if they had a clearance or not. This isn’t what the snitch is for. It’s for loss of sep events and runway incursion type stuff.

however, with ADSB if you bust the Bravo while not talking to ATC we def know who you are now.

Fair enough. I may have misunderstood the part about how they'll know to look, but in the past, there's a good chance that it would have been a case of "don't know who did it, don't have time, oh well" whereas now they know exactly which airplane it was.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Fair enough. I may have misunderstood the part about how they'll know to look, but in the past, there's a good chance that it would have been a case of "don't know who did it, don't have time, oh well" whereas now they know exactly which airplane it was.

The snitch has no way to know if an aircraft is in the B legally or not. it would require way to much manpower and time to look into every VFR aircraft that entered a B to see if they were cleared in or not. They’ll only look into the ones they’re asked to look into.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

B is for Bust. Carry on.

 

[MikeD]

I see too many pilots who have too much of a sense of security in flight following, not fully understanding that navigation and airspace avoidance/management are still their responsibility, not ATCs.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I see too many pilots who have too much of a sense of security in flight following, not fully understanding that navigation and airspace avoidance/management are still their responsibility, not ATCs.

man you have no idea some of the completely idiotic things I’ve seen. People would fly miles through the B and then call up for flight following on the other side of it. A HondaJet sales demonstration departed MMU on a 1200 code and did their entire sales demo at 4500 in the middle of the B not talking to ATC. A Citation departed LDJ on a 1200 code, climbed straight through the B (800’ to 7000’ at that location), and almost hit 3 EWR departures in the process (LDJ is 5 miles south of EWR directly under the extended centerline of the 22’s). How these things happen in the age of moving maps and ForeFlight etc really has no explanation but incompetence.

 

[NovemberEcho]

This was the Citation off LDJ. How do you do this? Especially with ADSB now. We tracked him too but we knew exactly who he was before he was out of 2000’.

 

[MikeD]

Agreed. I can’t believe in doing instruction, just how many pilots aren’t airspace aware or believe that flight following is akin to radar vectoring and is somehow a responsibility of ATC to keep them clear of Class B/C or even keep them on course.

unbleievable how this stuff happens, and especially the lack of knowledge and awareness.

 

[Jordan93]

ATL: remain clear of the Bravo
King Air: ok

 

[gotWXdagain]

ATL: remain clear of the Bravo
King Air: ok

If ever there was a moment when Leroy Jenkins could be applied to flying airplanes, this is it.

 

[Roger Roger]

This was the Citation off LDJ. How do you do this? Especially with ADSB now. We tracked him too but we knew exactly who he was before he was out of 2000’.

View attachment 51361View attachment 51362

Why blur the tail number? Surely someone on here knows the airplane, shame him/her!