Bush Flying

Low&Slow

Low&Slow

Ancora imparo
So, "I have this friend" who has had a fantasy of flying floatplanes, taildraggers, and/or skis in the bush for the last 25 years or so, but hasn't ever followed through with it for various reasons. My "friend" is now 44 years old but still wants to do it. Crazy, right? Alaska has always been very appealing to him, but he'd fly anywhere that the scenery is beautiful and the flying is rewarding and enjoyable.
Do these types of jobs exist anymore? How hard is it to get one?
He hasn't flown in MANY, MANY years, but his life situation is slowly changing and he's trying to get back into flying and would seriously consider leaving his good paying, stable career to do it for the right situation. He has CSEL, CMEL, INSTR, ~500hrs TT, ~25 hrs ME. What can I say, life happened.
He's tried to get his CFI several times, but has had the absolute worst luck in the universe with getting on with a local instructor and can't take enough time off work to go to American Flyers. He's passed all the writtens for the CFI and has a Ground Instructor Certificate/License in hand, but he's ineligible to teach ground school until he can obtain an endorsement from another ground instructor or CFI stating that he is proficient per 14 CFR 61.217.
Anyhow, do you think this is realistic and doable, or is it just a case of a good guy suffering from Walter Mitty Syndrome?
 
I would say that Alaska will be the place to do this kind of flying if we wants a real paycheck. A far distant second might be Idaho, but I think the flying there is a lot more seasonal than the great white north.

Depending on what kind of personal obligations your friend has, his best bet would be to complete a CFI at an Alaskan school in ANC and teach there until he gets at least 500 hours. By then he'll have generated a lot of contacts in the industry up there and should be able to network into a bush 135 position. An alternative approach is flying for a company that hires Caravan FOs, and I think Hageland is the only company that does that. Do that until you get 1,000, then slide into a 207 and build ones way up from there. 207 and Caravan drivers in the bush can make some decent money depending on the operator, but it's definitely a lot of work.

If floats are the goal then SE Alaska is a better destination, but there are few year round float positions, and flight training is practically non existent.
 
modernicarus said:
He's passed all the writtens for the CFI and has a Ground Instructor Certificate/License in hand, but he's ineligible to teach ground school until he can obtain an endorsement from another ground instructor or CFI stating that he is proficient per 14 CFR 61.217.
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This problem is an easy one to solve: go talk to the chief pilot at the local flight school. Ask what he wants to see to sign you off. It should look like a practice lesson and only take a few hours on a weekend. In fact, with technology, I don't see why this can't be accomplished over Face Time, Skype, or similar now. PM me if you want to set something up.

The problem of living a life on tailwheels, skis, and floats is one that I've spent lots of time thinking about while staring into a beer as well... Jimmy Buffet should write a song about it.
 
Someone like your friend approached my chief pilot in Alaska one day as we were having a conversation. My CP flat out told the guy that his time had passed and that no one locally would hire him.

It was one of the most crushing things I've ever seen.
 
TallFlyer said:
I would say that Alaska will be the place to do this kind of flying if we wants a real paycheck. A far distant second might be Idaho, but I think the flying there is a lot more seasonal than the great white north.
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Highly seasonal in Idaho, mostly shuttling rafters over summer and hunter drops in the fall. Most operators are small 1-2 plane outfits, owned and operated by the same person for years. Generally not "hiring" type operations.

If you want to do this type of flying for a living you pretty much need to move to Alaska and network in person. You probably wont be flying a tail dragger or float plane though. More likey a 206 (or since low time, an FO on a Caravan)...delivering candy bars and soda to remote villages.

Alternatively, if you're a person of faith, dont mind moving overseas, and dont mind fund raising for your own living expenses every two years, then you could look at missionary aviation and you can fly a 206 in Africa or in some Southeast Asian mountains.

My recommendation, keep your good paying/stable job... go buy a Super Cub and fly for fun. Take some flying vacations through the Idaho back country. Find some river bars in your local area. Etc.
 
All of my Bush Flying is outside the US, South America and the South Pacific, and I can tell you the older you are the more they will like that, at least where I have flown.

I helped two "guys" to get a job with my company, one was 54 the other in his mid 60s, one had already many years as bush pilot under the belt, the other was fresh out of flight school. Most of my bosses hate young kids that come to do time building and leave as soon as an airline calls them. They want people that do it for the lifestyle and stick around. They also like more mature individuals when you need to run tours.

But I have to say all of the place I have been are concerned about weight, so 40-50-60 is ok, but you need to be a bit in shape and not be overweight.

I have seen many, many older guys changing career and getting into bush flying. I`m one of the youngest at my company and i`m almost 30 years old.
 
Excellent replies. Thank you.
I talked with the Chief Pilot at the local flight school today per hook_dupin's suggestion. He had never heard of endorsing a Ground Instructor Certificate, so I showed him the FAR. He said he wasn't exactly sure what I needed from him and said I should just go online and take a Flight Instructor Refresher Course per 61.217 (c). So, I'm going to look into that. Not sure if I need to be a CFI in order to register though.
I'm going to continue trying to get my CFI so I can get proficient again and start building time to find a bush and/or floatplane job. I don't mind moving outside of the Contiguous United States (aka OCONUS) except that I only speak english, a teeny-tiny amount of spanish, and a teeny-tiny amount of mandarin. Probably just enough to get myself into trouble.
I've looked at MAF, but they aren't interested unless I have an A&P and thousands of flight hours logged.
I also like rframe's suggestion of buying a Super Cub and taking backwoods vacations with it, but not sure I can afford to do that. That would be AMAZING though! Thought about building a Bearhawk to do that very thing. Very pricey though. I'd be looking at probably ~$70-80k to build one.
swisspilot, I know what you're getting at as far as being overweight and out of shape. Lots of people my age tend to have accumulated weight over the years and have lost fitness. However, I try to watch what I eat and how much of it I eat, and I workout 5-6 times a week. Most people I meet generally tend to guess my age somewhere between 28 and 35. I'm 5'11, 175 lbs, and at my last PT test (April 2013), I ran two miles in 14:04, did 74 push-ups in two minutes, and 83 sit-ups in two minutes. I do a 5-mile run at least once every week and usually finish it between 35 and 40 minutes.
I don't know what my future holds, but I know that I still want flying to be in it in some capacity.
 
I think AK or expat is probably your best bet. There are bush/float jobs in the in the CONUS, but you either need to know somebody, or work for a company where flying isn't your primary job. There are a couple of chemical companies down here that service the oil fields with float planes, but the pilots are really salesmen/technicians.

As far as float plane charters in the lower 48 that aren't single pilot operators, the only other company I know of besides the one I work for is Kenmore.

I guess you could always try to get on as an instructor at a place like jack brown's and work up from there, but I have no idea how effective that is at getting a "real" job.

I wish i could give some advice on how to break into float flying, but I wasn't looking to get into floats, and actually turned down this job the first time it was offered to me. Could have been the biggest mistake I ever made.
 
modernicarus said:
Excellent replies. Thank you.
I talked with the Chief Pilot at the local flight school today per hook_dupin's suggestion. He had never heard of endorsing a Ground Instructor Certificate, so I showed him the FAR. He said he wasn't exactly sure what I needed from him and said I should just go online and take a Flight Instructor Refresher Course per 61.217 (c). So, I'm going to look into that. Not sure if I need to be a CFI in order to register though.
I'm going to continue trying to get my CFI so I can get proficient again and start building time to find a bush and/or floatplane job. I don't mind moving outside of the Contiguous United States (aka OCONUS) except that I only speak english, a teeny-tiny amount of spanish, and a teeny-tiny amount of mandarin. Probably just enough to get myself into trouble.
I've looked at MAF, but they aren't interested unless I have an A&P and thousands of flight hours logged.
I also like rframe's suggestion of buying a Super Cub and taking backwoods vacations with it, but not sure I can afford to do that. That would be AMAZING though! Thought about building a Bearhawk to do that very thing. Very pricey though. I'd be looking at probably ~$70-80k to build one.
swisspilot, I know what you're getting at as far as being overweight and out of shape. Lots of people my age tend to have accumulated weight over the years and have lost fitness. However, I try to watch what I eat and how much of it I eat, and I workout 5-6 times a week. Most people I meet generally tend to guess my age somewhere between 28 and 35. I'm 5'11, 175 lbs, and at my last PT test (April 2013), I ran two miles in 14:04, did 74 push-ups in two minutes, and 83 sit-ups in two minutes. I do a 5-mile run at least once every week and usually finish it between 35 and 40 minutes.
I don't know what my future holds, but I know that I still want flying to be in it in some capacity.
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I would have stayed away from MAF anyway, we have them at our field here, and even if they do some great stuff as far as using aviation to support isolated communities I`m totally against some of the other things they do. In some ways they are a company like any other, they do lots of charter work and they get paid for it, just as we do and nobody calls us a charitable group, but I have to say their training and their planes are sure the best in the industry. They have a training manual for the 206 that is truly amazing. I couldn`t see my self working for them, as it goes way too much into your life, at the end of the day I just wanna be myself and not be tied up to an organization 24/7 365 days a year, not sure maybe you are different and you could deal with that.

The main reason I mentioned being in shape and not overweight is because this job requires you to be flexible and strong, you would be loading all sort of stuff in the plane, most of the time by yourself, pushing the plane around and try to crawl inside the cargo pod to get that last box out. An other important aspect is that most likely you be flying smaller single engine planes, where having extra weight to be used for pax and cargo brings money and in some cases allows you to take an extra paying passenger on board.

If you wanna do some bush flying for fun, there are bush flying camps, they are not that expensive and may give you that kick you don`t have at your current job.
 
If you're not first, a person of faith, and secondly a pilot, MAF is not for you. You could check out AirServ though.

Capt. Chaos would be a good person for float work in Alaska. ppragman will know more about 135 operators in the western part of the state. ASpilot2be is currently working at a company that could be a good first step, and Roger Roger will know what's up with the JNU scene.

Me, I'm just a has been. ;)
 
esa17 said:
Someone like your friend approached my chief pilot in Alaska one day as we were having a conversation. My CP flat out told the guy that his time had passed and that no one locally would hire him.

It was one of the most crushing things I've ever seen.
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Yeah, that sucks. Maybe he was being honest, or maybe he was just being a jerk. I've met lots of people that have told me I can't do this or I can't do that throughout my life. They've all been wrong so far.
 
modernicarus said:
Yeah, that sucks. Maybe he was being honest, or maybe he was just being a jerk. I've met lots of people that have told me I can't do this or I can't do that throughout my life. They've all been wrong so far.
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I don`t think that CP is totally wrong, it really depends a lot on the type of operation and location, I know some bottom feeder operators that would rather have a young guy that can be forced into doing anything, let`s face it if you are young and eager to fly you will tend to push your limits, I don`t see older people that have picked up many more values doing that as easy. Young guys also have a much more competitive view of their career..

There are cases out there where somebody with this dream not only became a bush pilot, but also runs his own company.

Not all the religious based companies are like MAF or JAARS, last January I sent an application to Flying Mission Services, but I ended up just sticking to South America.
 
I clicked here because I like the Bushes both of them. Thought initially which one is flying again.

Good advice here carry on...
 
esa17 said:
Someone like your friend approached my chief pilot in Alaska one day as we were having a conversation. My CP flat out told the guy that his time had passed and that no one locally would hire him.

It was one of the most crushing things I've ever seen.
Click to expand...
I've seen a few geezers come through both my shop and your old one the last few summers. Some of them do just fine, though anecdotally older folks seem to wash out at a higher rate than the younger guys fresh from CFIing.
 
Roger Roger said:
anecdotally older folks seem to wash out at a higher rate than the younger guys fresh from CFIing.
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Is that due to lack/rusty skills? or they just leave on their own because they can`t take the lifestyle/job..

The only issue I see is that some operator may not pay enough or give you the benefits to leave on your own, and some are maybe too "old" to run a bachelor life...personally I`m also over the whole sharing a place thing..
 
swisspilot said:
Is that due to lack/rusty skills? or they just leave on their own because they can`t take the lifestyle/job..

The only issue I see is that some operator may not pay enough or give you the benefits to leave on your own, and some are maybe too "old" to run a bachelor life...personally I`m also over the whole sharing a place thing..
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Poor fundamental aircraft handling skills in most cases. Well, and crashing into a hill.
 
"My friend" ;) hasn't left his current job yet, but he found a part time flying job for this summer and is planning on retiring from his current company in August/Sep 2015. It's very scary to sell everything you own and leave the comfortable life you've had for the last 15+years to chase a dream that may or may not work out.
Is an A&P license and/or a Bachelor Degree important to have in this field? Are either one looked upon as valuable credentials for a bush pilot, or are they one of those things that are "nice to have," but not really necessary to have? I would think the A&P would be desirable, if not required, but I don't want to assume anything. I can find several places around me that I can get an A&P in 1-2 years, or there are a couple of Universities nearby that offer A&P maintenance BS degrees, but I will be there for 3-4 years.
Right now I'm thinking of going the University route and getting both. I plan to work as a CFI and pick up any other flying work I can find while I'm in school. I'm also thinking of moving to Alaska to get my A&P and maybe a Bachelor degree while I fly as a CFI and log AK time instead of staying here in Michigan for school.
This will put me around 50 years old by the time I graduate, give or take one or two years. I'll probably be too old for corporate or airline flying, but that's okay, my heart and soul is really in living and flying in beautiful remote locations, especially if I can get into a float plane (especially Beavers, Otters/Twin Otters, Norseman, etc) and/or a DC-3, C-46, or other old warbird.
Also, any idea what kind of pay "bush pilots" make? I realize that's a very broad question, but I'm trying to figure out if/how I can afford to do this.
 
If you
modernicarus said:
"My friend" ;) hasn't left his current job yet, but he found a part time flying job for this summer and is planning on retiring from his current company in August/Sep 2015. It's very scary to sell everything you own and leave the comfortable life you've had for the last 15+years to chase a dream that may or may not work out.
Is an A&P license and/or a Bachelor Degree important to have in this field? Are either one looked upon as valuable credentials for a bush pilot, or are they one of those things that are "nice to have," but not really necessary to have? I would think the A&P would be desirable, if not required, but I don't want to assume anything. I can find several places around me that I can get an A&P in 1-2 years, or there are a couple of Universities nearby that offer A&P maintenance BS degrees, but I will be there for 3-4 years.
Right now I'm thinking of going the University route and getting both. I plan to work as a CFI and pick up any other flying work I can find while I'm in school. I'm also thinking of moving to Alaska to get my A&P and maybe a Bachelor degree while I fly as a CFI and log AK time instead of staying here in Michigan for school.
This will put me around 50 years old by the time I graduate, give or take one or two years. I'll probably be too old for corporate or airline flying, but that's okay, my heart and soul is really in living and flying in beautiful remote locations, especially if I can get into a float plane (especially Beavers, Otters/Twin Otters, Norseman, etc) and/or a DC-3, C-46, or other old warbird.
Also, any idea what kind of pay "bush pilots" make? I realize that's a very broad question, but I'm trying to figure out if/how I can afford to do this.
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Send me a pm and I will give you some info if you would like.
I know the current pay scales in all the float equipment you mentioned.

If you want to fly floats and dont have the float time, go get a job as a dock hand. One summer of turning out planes and then you would be flying the line if you are somewhat competent.

Good luck.
 
modernicarus said:
"My friend" ;) hasn't left his current job yet, but he found a part time flying job for this summer and is planning on retiring from his current company in August/Sep 2015. It's very scary to sell everything you own and leave the comfortable life you've had for the last 15+years to chase a dream that may or may not work out.
Is an A&P license and/or a Bachelor Degree important to have in this field? Are either one looked upon as valuable credentials for a bush pilot, or are they one of those things that are "nice to have," but not really necessary to have? I would think the A&P would be desirable, if not required, but I don't want to assume anything. I can find several places around me that I can get an A&P in 1-2 years, or there are a couple of Universities nearby that offer A&P maintenance BS degrees, but I will be there for 3-4 years.
Right now I'm thinking of going the University route and getting both. I plan to work as a CFI and pick up any other flying work I can find while I'm in school. I'm also thinking of moving to Alaska to get my A&P and maybe a Bachelor degree while I fly as a CFI and log AK time instead of staying here in Michigan for school.
This will put me around 50 years old by the time I graduate, give or take one or two years. I'll probably be too old for corporate or airline flying, but that's okay, my heart and soul is really in living and flying in beautiful remote locations, especially if I can get into a float plane (especially Beavers, Otters/Twin Otters, Norseman, etc) and/or a DC-3, C-46, or other old warbird.
Also, any idea what kind of pay "bush pilots" make? I realize that's a very broad question, but I'm trying to figure out if/how I can afford to do this.
Click to expand...
I will join the crew volunteering to answer questions. Be a little easier over PM.
 
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