Burnout

phill1174

phill1174

Well-Known Member
Has anyone else experienced burnout during their career? It’s hard to explain, I love flying and the people I fly with but I’m at this point where I dread getting ready to start a trip. For me I know the 7-9 day trips are a part of it. Idk what else it is. I hate to sound ungrateful when I’m at a company some people would kill to be at.

Crazy enough I think back to my time at 9E flying pax and even with the commute across the country I never remember dreading going to work like I do now.
 
I've dealt with it about 7 times now.

I've burnt out so hard that I needed to detach for 6 months just to remotely care again.

A good, long vacation helps. Long enough to actually WANT to go back to work. For me, it's a MINIMUM of 2 weeks.

You're noticing the symptoms early, that's actually a good sign.

On the days off: Relax more completely. Play harder. Disconnect more.

...and frankly... give a [poop] less.

You do NOT want hardcore burnout in the cockpit. It leads to some nasty habits.
 
phill1174 said:
Has anyone else experienced burnout during their career? It’s hard to explain, I love flying and the people I fly with but I’m at this point where I dread getting ready to start a trip. For me I know the 7-9 day trips are a part of it. Idk what else it is. I hate to sound ungrateful when I’m at a company some people would kill to be at.

Crazy enough I think back to my time at 9E flying pax and even with the commute across the country I never remember dreading going to work like I do now.
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It definitely wears on you over time. The place you work at doesn't help and possibly the night flying. Changing things up might help as far as doing international vs domestic. Night vs day. There was a time when reserve was easy. I just talked to a guy who lives in Indiana and does afternoon turns out of SDF. I don't know. I know you like where you live and it would have been a stretch for me to move for the job like that. The job does pay pretty well and there are ways to drop trips now. If you did afternoon turns it would be easy to drop half of them. I think you have decent seniority in your seat. Maybe bid something that isn't perfect for you. Smaller blocks. But stuff that someone else could pick up easy. Give yourself a break and just work less. I did guard my seniority and use it for QOL my whole career but that's not so easy to do now. I got out at 60 and now realize I could have got out a few years earlier cause of my lifestyle and savings.
 
for sure man...there are trips that never seem to end, even when it's easy with a good crew. Just trying to remember that this job is easy...most want to make it hard.

"when life gives you lemons...just say F*** the lemons and bail.." -Kunu (Paul Rudd)
 
phill1174 said:
Crazy enough I think back to my time at 9E flying pax and even with the commute across the country I never remember dreading going to work like I do now.
Click to expand...
Beware of the rose colored glasses. Sometimes I'll think fondly back on my regional CA days but that was the time in my career I felt the most burned out doing exactly what you were doing with a 5 on 2 off uncommutable reserve schedule. Sometimes I have to remind myself how absolutely miserable it was, then dealing with endless crap once you did get to work. Nowadays I only dread going to work because of the commute. I'm definitely in a stage of "I'm gonna need to change something up down the road to stop myself getting too bored with this", but fortunately that's an option where I'm at.
What I've found helps is try to find something somewhat productive but low stakes to do on trips. Make it a point to read a book or something. I spent a lot of my last year learning Spanish on the road, but not to the point where I made it an extra chore for myself, just something fun and interesting to occupy my time. Just something to get myself off my laptop or away from the TV in the hotel. Having something to look forward to at home helps a little too. Something as simple as looking forward to getting back and cooking myself a nice meal, getting something done around the house that's just for me, finishing up something hobby related. That was the biggest problem when I got burned out at the regionals, it felt like I just existed to work and serve the company because that's literally all I had the time for.
 
JordanD said:
Beware of the rose colored glasses. Sometimes I'll think fondly back on my regional CA days but that was the time in my career I felt the most burned out doing exactly what you were doing with a 5 on 2 off uncommutable reserve schedule. Sometimes I have to remind myself how absolutely miserable it was, then dealing with endless crap once you did get to work. Nowadays I only dread going to work because of the commute. I'm definitely in a stage of "I'm gonna need to change something up down the road to stop myself getting too bored with this", but fortunately that's an option where I'm at.
What I've found helps is try to find something somewhat productive but low stakes to do on trips. Make it a point to read a book or something. I spent a lot of my last year learning Spanish on the road, but not to the point where I made it an extra chore for myself, just something fun and interesting to occupy my time. Just something to get myself off my laptop or away from the TV in the hotel. Having something to look forward to at home helps a little too. Something as simple as looking forward to getting back and cooking myself a nice meal, getting something done around the house that's just for me, finishing up something hobby related. That was the biggest problem when I got burned out at the regionals, it felt like I just existed to work and serve the company because that's literally all I had the time for.
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I don't fly, but burnout definitely hits as a dispatcher, and elsewhere in the industry. Hope you're staying well. I highlighted @JordanD 's bit at the beginning there, remembering my own time as a DXer at a regional, but there'd be 45-55 releases to shove out the door and "Getting into the red" on DX Monitor was a constant dread. Also, the CRJ2 was annoying in every way. I type this smiling, but I recall how many trips to and from home were spent hearing "Sorry can't get there from here, but I can getya to Charlotte and then to [DC]/[BWI]/[EWR]/[PIT], that's close, right..." trying to get to Philadelphia.

Out of curiosity, how long are your own commutes? I understand as flight crew, the hotels-away-from-crashpads aren't quite the same feelings, but base slash home slash wherever the pairing ends, ...it adds up.

During my own commutes, I'll usually take a bit to read through family chats, or be sure to chat with my own other half and make sure she's doing okay.


(...Taking a good long bit to read up on other languages seems intriguing!)
 
I would venture to say that maybe 90% of us on here had a childhood dream of flying planes. Stemmed from an immediate influential point in time, maybe a conglomerate of points in time. I’m pretty sure we didn’t think about the commute, the hotel to hotel life, the circadian swaps or the stress of just general ADM. we just stared at a beautiful flying object wishing we could one day be in control of it, some of us would have given anything for that chance. This desire pushed most through training and their first few low paying high risk gigs as a pilot.

For me, it has now crossed the decade mark of professional flying. Sometimes I wish I didn’t have the bug, when I’m in self pity mode at a hotel in Omaha with 11 hours rest. Other times, I have almost imposter syndrome as I’m at work, wondering how I got here and how lucky I am. It ebbs and flows, the more you work to stack that cash, the less you want to be at work.

Next time you’re feeling glum about your career, observe those around you. That stressed out business man having an intense talk at your departure gate, or that waitress who might have gotten you a regular coke when you asked for diet, or that tech worker that cannot look away from their PED as the pressure for their next break relies solely on hours of time cracking away at computer sh;t, or that van driver who just finished a shift at job number one and now is on the clock taking you to the airport at 5am.

That’s what I do, it fills me with a bit of gratitude for the suck I have to endure at times in order to tell gravity to piss off for a living.
 
I find long period of time away from work help. The longer the better. I was off work for most of May and the beginning of June. This helped a lot going into the busy for PAX airlines summer season.

Nearly got a month off in October last year. Sadly my friend who I helped get hired at my employer was fired right on the last week I was on vacation. I got involved and tried to slow the process down with some emails and txts to BCPs. IMO the firing was very unfair as Pro Standards was not contacted and in addition nothing was said directly to my friend before something was said to management.

I found it interesting that this sequence of events started another round of burnout. Even before I made it to work. I knew I wouldn't be my best self going to work after this so I called out sick for an entire reserve block. This helped a little but last winter wasn't the most fun. As far as burnout goes.

I also found that talk therapy and speaking about my schedule with normal people helps a lot. Most of them are quite aghast at my current schedule. My girlfriend for example thought I was "being dramatic" about my schedule at first. Now she calls Crew Scheduling the other "toxic girlfriend". Compare this to my toxic coworkers here on this website that basically engage in harassment whenever I speak up about my schedule and you'll see why you have to get out of your bubble to get any relief from the realities of the job.
 
Burrito said:
I don't fly, but burnout definitely hits as a dispatcher, and elsewhere in the industry. Hope you're staying well. I highlighted @JordanD 's bit at the beginning there, remembering my own time as a DXer at a regional, but there'd be 45-55 releases to shove out the door and "Getting into the red" on DX Monitor was a constant dread. Also, the CRJ2 was annoying in every way. I type this smiling, but I recall how many trips to and from home were spent hearing "Sorry can't get there from here, but I can getya to Charlotte and then to [DC]/[BWI]/[EWR]/[PIT], that's close, right..." trying to get to Philadelphia.

Out of curiosity, how long are your own commutes? I understand as flight crew, the hotels-away-from-crashpads aren't quite the same feelings, but base slash home slash wherever the pairing ends, ...it adds up.

During my own commutes, I'll usually take a bit to read through family chats, or be sure to chat with my own other half and make sure she's doing okay.


(...Taking a good long bit to read up on other languages seems intriguing!)
Click to expand...
For me the commute to ONT is short (1hr usually) if I do it from PHX. Most of my trips start and or end with a commercial so it’s hit or miss where I start. Works out nice because 90% I’ve been fortunate enough to get First Class.

I haven’t had to deal with a Crashpad since my first year. We have a handful of pairings that require coming in a day early and getting a hotel but it’s not many.
 
derg said:
Oh yeah man, for sure. When was your last full-on, phone-off vacation when you just disappeared for a week or so?
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Got vacation coming up next month thankfully. It’s been a while but I’ll say I’m pretty good about shutting work out when I’m off. I think I’m just at a point where it’s time to really reflect on where I want to be career wise. Seems like I’ve been trying to fit a square block into a circle the past few years.
 
DE727UPS said:
It definitely wears on you over time. The place you work at doesn't help and possibly the night flying. Changing things up might help as far as doing international vs domestic. Night vs day. There was a time when reserve was easy. I just talked to a guy who lives in Indiana and does afternoon turns out of SDF. I don't know. I know you like where you live and it would have been a stretch for me to move for the job like that. The job does pay pretty well and there are ways to drop trips now. If you did afternoon turns it would be easy to drop half of them. I think you have decent seniority in your seat. Maybe bid something that isn't perfect for you. Smaller blocks. But stuff that someone else could pick up easy. Give yourself a break and just work less. I did guard my seniority and use it for QOL my whole career but that's not so easy to do now. I got out at 60 and now realize I could have got out a few years earlier cause of my lifestyle and savings.
Click to expand...
I know you definitely understand (not saying anyone else does) about this place specifically. It’s just something I can’t put in words but this place seems to take something out of you. I’m thankful for the crews and the benefits of the job though.

It’s funny you mentioned that, I actually bid a base trip line next bid period. Mainly because I had a family thing to bid around. They were really nice IMO before they started turning them into turn lines. After vacation it’ll be nice to not be gone 8 or 9 days in a row. The nights are easy for me. The flip flopping of night to day gets old after a while.

Working less is a part of the plan. My last few pairings have all been right up on 30/7 violations and one was going to go over and got modified. Made sense why I was so tired once I got home.
 
DropTank said:
I've dealt with it about 7 times now.

I've burnt out so hard that I needed to detach for 6 months just to remotely care again.

A good, long vacation helps. Long enough to actually WANT to go back to work. For me, it's a MINIMUM of 2 weeks.

You're noticing the symptoms early, that's actually a good sign.

On the days off: Relax more completely. Play harder. Disconnect more.

...and frankly... give a [poop] less.

You do NOT want hardcore burnout in the cockpit. It leads to some nasty habits.
Click to expand...
Thankfully I’m not that guy. I’ve seen it and don’t want to be that burden on the person I’m sitting next to. I’m usually as happy as a dog digging holes when I’m in the actual airplane even in the middle of the night. For me I think it’s the place and do I actually want to be here.
 
I remember running into crews with brown pants from time to time, they always seemed nice, but get them started on gripes about the workplace and you better get a second drink because they had some things to say. Seemed all they were content with was pay, this was about 5 years ago leading into Covid. Heard it went downhill even more on the scheduling front since then. It was a place many of us ACMI scum dreamed to one day be, that much pay without terminals, FA’s or weekly medical emergencies.
 
JDean3204 said:
I remember running into crews with brown pants from time to time, they always seemed nice, but get them started on gripes about the workplace and you better get a second drink because they had some things to say. Seemed all they were content with was pay, this was about 5 years ago leading into Covid. Heard it went downhill even more on the scheduling front since then. It was a place many of us ACMI scum dreamed to one day be, that much pay without terminals, FA’s or weekly medical emergencies.
Click to expand...
Haha it’s still the same. I don’t have the stories anywhere close to some of the senior guys but I’ve seen some things that make you scratch your head or infuriate you if you have a short temper. As far as skeds they’ve been consistently getting more efficient in favor of the company. Yesterday I left the west coast at 6am and got into Louisville at 1pm. We were back out the hotel at 1230am to fly to Dallas. Got into Dallas at 3am and back out the hotel again at 4pm.

I would never tell anyone to not come here. It’s a great job especially if cargo is your end goal. Money is great and the insurance alone is probably some of the best in the industry. How someone sees this place depends on what one wants out of a career.

I’m one of the oddballs that don’t mind the terminals or FA’s. If I ever had something come up that was pax related most of the time it’s someone else’s job to handle it in a way that keeps it from escalating.
 
phill1174 said:
Haha it’s still the same. I don’t have the stories anywhere close to some of the senior guys but I’ve seen some things that make you scratch your head or infuriate you if you have a short temper. As far as skeds they’ve been consistently getting more efficient in favor of the company. Yesterday I left the west coast at 6am and got into Louisville at 1pm. We were back out the hotel at 1230am to fly to Dallas. Got into Dallas at 3am and back out the hotel again at 4pm.

I would never tell anyone to not come here. It’s a great job especially if cargo is your end goal. Money is great and the insurance alone is probably some of the best in the industry. How someone sees this place depends on what one wants out of a career.

I’m one of the oddballs that don’t mind the terminals or FA’s. If I ever had something come up that was pax related most of the time it’s someone else’s job to handle it in a way that keeps it from escalating.
Click to expand...

Then I’d say you’re in a good spot. Maybe take some more time off if possible. Just try to think of someone telling you that you can no longer fly, nor keep the compensation of said flying job. It may sound appealing when you’re on that third circadian swap in a week, but in order to make that kind of cash you would be grinding in any other career. Unless you’re a prime candidate for influencer, which I’ve heard can even be a grind with editing and time.

Hope you feel better, if not send me a PM and I have a few small tricks to help with getting into a better mindset for something that is going to suck. No it doesn’t involve popping mushrooms either 🙂
 
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