Bright Future For Young AA Pilots

[ready2fly]

Except for the fact that there are still 1800+ AA pilots on furlough.

:yeahthat:

And it's still anyones guess when they will be recalled.

RUMOT was that it would begin in ernest this year, but.....that's on hold for now, too. It could still happen ... or at least start to happen ... later this year as things change. But, until then, don't get too excited.

Last I heard, there are roughly 1 in 10 actually accepting the recalls when they were happening. AND with AA in a state of flux (contract negotiations), it may be worse than that.

Also, remember that there are roughly 600 Eagle pilots who currently hold AA seniority numbers. When/if the "gate" opens, those guys will go first after the AA furlough recallees.

 

[PGT]

So when the going gets good, AA is not a place to be looking for a job?

By then JetBlue and SWA will be majors

 

[ready2fly]

So when the going gets good, AA is not a place to be looking for a job?

By then JetBlue and SWA will be majors

No. Not saying that. I apologize if it came across that way.

I merely was pointing out that when things do start to move at AA, it's I wouldn't advise rushing to get your ap in. There are a crap-ton of people ahead of you who will be taking those seats. It'll probably be around two years (totally speculating here) after things start moving at AA before you'll see them hire "off the street."

 

[kellwolf]

It'll probably be around two years (totally speculating here) after things start moving at AA before you'll see them hire "off the street."

S'cool. For every guy that takes the recall to AA, that's one less guy to compete with at another carrier.

 

[Counselor]

CAL? No way.

American, United and US Airways going to be the places to be come the next boom. Continental is too young. Average age there is in the low 40's. US Airways is 55, American is up there and UAL isn't too far behind.

U.S. Airways' average is 55? Now that is an airline, if it survives in its current incarnation, that promises rapid acceleration upward. Anyone have the retirement numbers for Airways/AWA?

By the way, seniority list integration, 200 furloughs, and Sully heroism notwithstanding, how are things for pilots flying at Airways? Are you guys happy there, relatively speaking? Decent lines, work rules, etc.?

Wait, I just hijacked my own thread.

 

[Hacker15e]

These are AA's retirement numbers as of mid-2007...I think these are pre-65:

Year AA
2007 281
2008 402
2009 405
2010 363
2011 318
2012 312
2013 388
2014 478
2015 571
2016 628
2017 683
2018 739
2019 735
2020 750
2021 724
2022 623
2023 509
2024 486
2025 417

 

[Hacker15e]

2013 118
2014 163
2015 170
2016 193
2017 199
2018 175
2019 191
2020 169
2021 186
2022 178
2023 184
2024 153

Dang it starts in 2013. Thats completely useless when it all ends in 2012. Nothing to look forward to expect a complete financial collapse, martial law, nuclear war, and the End of Days. Yea...........

These are the "Pre 65" numbers I had for CAL (again, current as of summer '07) in case you want to try to factor them into your thought process. Unfortunately the age 65 thing has made retirement numbers much less clear-cut than they used to be, as some pilots are choosing to leave before 65.

Year CAL
2007 322
2008 246
2009 218
2010 210
2011 220
2012 217
2013 194
2014 210
2015 167
2016 190
2017 178

 

[crashmbern]

Most of the Eagle captains that I have talked to that have numbers at AA don't really want to go over. They are usually pretty senior at eagle in there late 40's or so making $100,000 a year. Unless management gives them sort of severance package to leave and avoid first year pay at AA I don't think a lot of eagle guys will go over.

 

[RPM]

Most of the Eagle captains that I have talked to that have numbers at AA don't really want to go over. They are usually pretty senior at eagle in there late 40's or so making $100,000 a year. Unless management gives them sort of severance package to leave and avoid first year pay at AA I don't think a lot of eagle guys will go over.

I hope they are forced to go if the time comes.

 

[Trip7]

These are AA's retirement numbers as of mid-2007...I think these are pre-65:

Year AA
2007 281
2008 402
2009 405
2010 363
2011 318
2012 312
2013 388
2014 478
2015 571
2016 628
2017 683
2018 739
2019 735
2020 750
2021 724
2022 623
2023 509
2024 486
2025 417

Wow AA was about to retire nearly the entire airline. If age 65 didn't happen there would be an absolute hiring spree going on right now and the regionals would be so short of pilots pay might have actually been raised to the 30s first year Ah, what could have been.....

 

[derg]

Out of 12000 pilots or so, those numbers aren't all that exciting.

Plus, that's if everything freezes. If AA makes a dash for the (retirement) cash after a few bad quarters, that's going to skew the numbers even more.

Trying to gauge what's going to happen more than a few years out is such a crapshoot, might as well get in where you fit in and enjoy the ride. How many NWA 747 captains thought they'd be going to recurrent in Atlanta? "

 

[ready2fly]

Most of the Eagle captains that I have talked to that have numbers at AA don't really want to go over. They are usually pretty senior at eagle in there late 40's or so making $100,000 a year. Unless management gives them sort of severance package to leave and avoid first year pay at AA I don't think a lot of eagle guys will go over.

I hope they are forced to go if the time comes.

I'm almost (emphasis on almost) positive that they will not be given an option.

Last I heard, they were trying to negotiate some kind of "signing bonus" .... somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K .....when their number is called. Not sure how concrete that is = meaning: if that was a rumor or a wish list.

 

[kellwolf]

I'm almost (emphasis on almost) positive that they will not be given an option.

Honestly, I don't like ANYONE being forced into something. If they don't want to go, they shouldn't be made to go. They can resign their AA employee number and stay at Eagle. Telling someone "You're gonna go. Oh, yeah. Sorry about the 19 days off and six figure salary. Welcome back to RSV and FO pay" is BS if the person doesn't want to take that QoL hit. If someone told me that, I'd more than likely say "Been nice knowing ya. I'm getting another job. Here's my ID, my books, and oh yeah. Good luck getting a CA for that turn I've got in 2 hours."

 

[Gonzo]

Honestly, I don't like ANYONE being forced into something. If they don't want to go, they shouldn't be made to go. They can resign their AA employee number and stay at Eagle. Telling someone "You're gonna go. Oh, yeah. Sorry about the 19 days off and six figure salary. Welcome back to RSV and FO pay" is BS if the person doesn't want to take that QoL hit. If someone told me that, I'd more than likely say "Been nice knowing ya. I'm getting another job. Here's my ID, my books, and oh yeah. Good luck getting a CA for that turn I've got in 2 hours."

I am going to guess that you don't know a lot about letter 3 or all that eagle pilots had to give up so the guys that wanted a AA number could get one. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them take a number. They wanted a number and they need to use it, or go to the back of the line here at eagle.

 

[RPM]

I am going to guess that you don't know a lot about letter 3 or all that eagle pilots had to give up so the guys that wanted a AA number could get one. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them take a number. They wanted a number and they need to use it, or go to the back of the line here at eagle.

Yeah, there is a lot more to the letter3 story than just being forced to go just because... a lot of people here at Eagle would be outraged if they could just say "no thanks, Im cool right here, I'll pass"

 

[ready2fly]

I am going to guess that you don't know a lot about letter 3 or all that eagle pilots had to give up so the guys that wanted a AA number could get one. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them take a number. They wanted a number and they need to use it, or go to the back of the line here at eagle.

Yeah, there is a lot more to the letter3 story than just being forced to go just because... a lot of people here at Eagle would be outraged if they could just say "no thanks, Im cool right here, I'll pass"

In short: :yeahthat:

 

[RPM]

In simple terms.. we've had flowbacks here at Eagle for YEARS now holding everyone back because of the guys at Eagle that accepted those AA numbers (was part of the agreement, it went both ways, flowthrough/flowback)..

Jet Captains were given the "choice" of Flow through (AA senority# issued), or Eagle rights.. which would allow them to stay at Eagle.. There is more to it than that, but I don't have the agreement in front of me..

I'm not blaming anyone for what happened.. I would have signed for the flowthrough deal at the time too probably.. but if the time comes, they need to live up to there end of the deal and move on to AA. People have been stuck in the right seat for an eternity here because of their agreement..

 

[Nick]

The airline needs to be growing to have any real advancement.

 

[fender_jag]

Can you feel your face yet, Nick?

 

[kellwolf]

I am going to guess that you don't know a lot about letter 3 or all that eagle pilots had to give up so the guys that wanted a AA number could get one. Nobody put a gun to their heads and made them take a number. They wanted a number and they need to use it, or go to the back of the line here at eagle.

Actually, no I don't. I wouldn't mind a better history lesson so I can understand, though.