Brazilian judge convicts US pilots in 2006 midair

I wonder if they were even in radar contact. Many parts of South America don't have consistent radar coverage AND we're flying offsets part of the time to mitigate separation issues.

Let's just say a guy I know was flying down in Piarco's airspace, fat, dumb and happy at assigned crews altitude... and long story short, went belly to belly with a Caribbean Airlines 737 at the same altitude, same airway, opposite direction after he was cleared to THEIR cruise altitude a few moments earlier. TCAS saves.

Lots of phone calls made, but the controlling agency seemed to have lost the evidentiary materials, including the tape clearing the 737 to the other aircraft's altitude.
 
ATC is supposed know what altitude they were assigned. They can't just climb/descend at their own whim. The fact the they noticed the transponder was off after the collision has no bearing whatsoever on how it got turned off. They were at FL370, I doubt the MEA was any higher. The altitude for direction of flight was wrong but once again that is on ATC.

If ATC lost contact with that plane then WTF didn't the controller move the 737 to different alt.

The US Pilots were scape goats IMO

If I had a dime for every wrong altitude a Florida controller assigned me I would be able to retire. Florida doesn't follow the published altitude rules and just uses their own system.
 
If ATC lost contact with that plane then WTF didn't the controller move the 737 to different alt.

The US Pilots were scape goats IMO

If I had a dime for every wrong altitude a Florida controller assigned me I would be able to retire. Florida doesn't follow the published altitude rules and just uses their own system.

The Brazilian ATC scopes default to display the altitude an aircraft is "supposed" to be assigned(IE the altitude that was not assigned) The controller(s) thought the Legacy was at the altitude displayed. That is a retarded system problem.
 
Well, we did have a Aero Mexico DC-9 go head to head with a Piper Warrior back in the 1980's.

There was a handful of recommendations that came out of that accident as well. Wasn't necessarily a matter of roasting anyone, it was a matter of prevention.

There are problems in that region with communications and ATC. I've seen it first hand myself. You could choose to put the pilots behind bars for 50 years but until those problems are recognized and corrected, it's not going to improve safety.
 
The Brazilian ATC scopes default to display the altitude an aircraft is "supposed" to be assigned(IE the altitude that was not assigned) The controller(s) thought the Legacy was at the altitude displayed. That is a retarded system problem.

That is definately a jacked up way of doing things.

Let's get the facts straight on this one.

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/air_crash200901?printable=true&currentPage=all

Plus, had a plane piloted by foreign pilots brought down a Delta or American 737 somehwere over Nebraksa everybody here (and the media) would be burning those pilots at the stake.

Well if you want to get the facts out I wouldn't excatly quote Vanity Fair. Crap that was a long article filled with a bunch of useless crap to entertain.

Here is a link to the NTSB report of the facts.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/g30bnhaslz0tkgv2lwzr2qex/K05222011120000.pdf

A lot happened to bring the two planes together. I agree that the Boeing is just about guilt free and of course the pax are innocent. Both crews technically were allowing themselves to be distracted from the task at hand by donig non-essential tasks.

The Boeing crew was showing pictures, etc and had they been looking outside they may have spoted the legacy in time. We will never know and it may not have mattered at those closing speeds.

The Embraer crew appears to be less than proficient on the plane and could have used a few more hours in the lab playing with the boxes. I was trained by Flight Safety on the Primus Epic suite for the E170 and was fully comfortable using it when I left for IOE. Extra training was available for those that wanted it. They also allowed themsevles to both be distracted from flying the jet for a long period of time.

The NORDO is easy to understand overseas. It has happened to me in Mexico due to a forgotten handoff by ATC. You keep hearing conversations you don't understand as they are in a foreign language and you assume it is two way comms. The crew also made 12-19 radio calls trying to restablish comms late in the flight. But ATC had some receivers turned off that prevented contact from being made.

The primary cause of the accident IMHO is ineffective ATC procedures and equiement design. The underlying cause is the TCAS getting switch off some how either by the crew or by a system glitch. ATC could have prevented this accident including calling the aircraft SAT PHONE....

The sentence seems to indicate the gov't thinks the controlers were mainly to blame as they are not trying to get the pilots back to put them in jail but sentenced to community service. Which who knows if the US or FAA will enforce.

Let's just hope they learn from the accident and fix the RADAR oddities and ATC procedures.

Also, did they every find anthing out in the testing of the avionics. I know E170's electronics had a lot of bugs in it. Did the pilots turn off the TCAS or did it turn itself off?


On another note, would it be wise for aircrews to start flying 1/2 or 1 mile offsets to the right on the routes overseas? This woud prevent a head-on on the airway in the event two planes line up like this again.
 
Well if you want to get the facts out I wouldn't excatly quote Vanity Fair. Crap that was a long article filled with a bunch of useless crap to entertain.

I thought the article at least did a good job of conveying a lot of technical information to a non-pilot reader. Like most accidents, this one was caused by a chain of events. One thing I thought of is that the relatively recent application of winglets to most new aircraft played a critical role. If the Legacy had no winglets, the planes would have missed.
 
I thought the article at least did a good job of conveying a lot of technical information to a non-pilot reader. Like most accidents, this one was caused by a chain of events. One thing I thought of is that the relatively recent application of winglets to most new aircraft played a critical role. If the Legacy had no winglets, the planes would have missed.

The 737's winglet hit the Legacy's tail as well. Think about how close it was to hitting the Legacy head on.
 
I would pick a random distance like 2/5's of a mile in case someone else has the same idea.

Ideally, everyone offsets the same direction... That way if you're both going opposite directions you'll be 2 miles apart. Head on seems to be the thing to worry about, not so much overtaking... Much more time to react in that case.
 
I would pick a random distance like 2/5's of a mile in case someone else has the same idea.

Concur. Certain approach control facilities — no names — get REALLY snippy if you do this on the enroute structure they "own", though.
 
Ideally, everyone offsets the same direction... That way if you're both going opposite directions you'll be 2 miles apart. Head on seems to be the thing to worry about, not so much overtaking... Much more time to react in that case.

What if they're British and fly on the wrong side of the airway?
 
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