Brainstorming

ppragman said:
Or you can get a caravan with a high gross weight increase:

9062 MGTOW
2224 Lbs of Fuel
5200 (empty weight pax config estimate, I figure it'd weigh in a little more than the freight one)
------
1538lbs = 6 people and 500lbs of there stuff, on shorter trips you can take 9 people and ALL of their stuff.

And that's at full fuel, so 2224lbs of fuel gives you somewhere around 6hrs of range depending on how you fly it, and whatnot. Which, at at 150KTAS (low ball if you climb up high) gives you a 900NM RBF (or Range before flameout).
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I cant imagine going that slow and making everyone wear oxygen when making a short flight to KJAC or KSLC (or anywhere west of us for that matter) when the MEA is 16,000.
Im thinking along the lines of very efficient yet fast. The caravan is going to cost quite a bit more per NM than the other choices if only 4 people are going. Its very rare that someone calls our charter company and wants to take 9 people somewhere.
 
Never flown in a PC-12 but have flown in a TBM a few times. A local company owns one and I'm good friends with the pilot so when he has to take it to the radio shop across the state he lets me go. Very fast airplane and has a roomy interior. But I would still vote for the PC-12 I think you would satisfy the most needs there.
 
Fly_Unity said:
Wouldnt be a problem in a TBM

Just looked at a POH online
http://www.tbm850.com/IMG/pdf/PIM850GC.pdf (not sure if different models carry more or less weight)

Max gross weight, = 7400
Empty weight = 4700
Useful load = 2700 LBS

5 people X 180 = 900 LBS
750 NM / 310 TAS = 2.4 hours = .8 hour reserve = 3.2 hours
65 gph at FL260 X 3.2 hours = 1550 LBS of fuel (includes fuel to climb to FL 260)

We still have 350 LBS left over for baggage

A quick google search says a bag of golf clubs = 35 LBS X 4 = 140LBS
That gives 210 lbs left for everyones suitcase
According to Answers.com an average LARGE hard shell suitcase with clothes is 45 LBS X 4 = 180 LBS
that leaves 30 LBS for me :D

Lets go.

Anything further than TUS would have to have a Fuel stop, but 750 N miles of Range is pretty good with all that weight.
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I disagree with your numbers but whatever... the point was still made. Trust me when I say that you'll have mad pax if you try that. The Piper and the TBM won't do the mission with any sort of margin. We have not even considered the cabin size yet either... You need a PC-12-45 Minimum.
 
While your weight numbers all look good. I think you would have a baggage volume problem. I'm skeptical of the 4 golf bags and 4 suitcases fitting into the TBM, and absolutely no chance in the Meridian.
 
These numbers are for a TBM 850, yet you said that you would have 5 owners buy in at $300k per share. That will leave you quite short of the purchase price on even an early model 850. You have to really pay attention to the useful load on the TBM models. The 700A had about 550 pounds of payload with full fuel. The payload on the 700B and C were not that good because of the new door style. It was not until the C2 that the payload actually improved beyond the original A model numbers. With that being said, you can usually back off on the fuel and still get very good range while achieving a suitable payload. I have about 23 hours in a 700A and I have about 50 hours in a PC-12/47. They each have a different mission profile. The TBM is a sports car, and the PC-12 is an SUV. The hourly operating costs are similar, but the per mile costs on the TBM are cheaper simply because of the speed difference. The PC-12 is about 260 knots, and the TBM700 is about 295 knots. 4 sets of golf clubs do not work well in the baggage compartment of either airplane, but with the PC-12, there is enough floorspace to stack them behind the back seats.

Fly_Unity said:
Wouldnt be a problem in a TBM

Just looked at a POH online
http://www.tbm850.com/IMG/pdf/PIM850GC.pdf (not sure if different models carry more or less weight)

Max gross weight, = 7400
Empty weight = 4700
Useful load = 2700 LBS

5 people X 180 = 900 LBS
750 NM / 310 TAS = 2.4 hours = .8 hour reserve = 3.2 hours
65 gph at FL260 X 3.2 hours = 1550 LBS of fuel (includes fuel to climb to FL 260)

We still have 350 LBS left over for baggage

A quick google search says a bag of golf clubs = 35 LBS X 4 = 140LBS
That gives 210 lbs left for everyones suitcase
According to Answers.com an average LARGE hard shell suitcase with clothes is 45 LBS X 4 = 180 LBS
that leaves 30 LBS for me :D

Lets go.

Anything further than TUS would have to have a Fuel stop, but 750 N miles of Range is pretty good with all that weight.
Click to expand...
 
skydisaster said:
These numbers are for a TBM 850, yet you said that you would have 5 owners buy in at $300k per share. That will leave you quite short of the purchase price on even an early model 850. You have to really pay attention to the useful load on the TBM models. The 700A had about 550 pounds of payload with full fuel. The payload on the 700B and C were not that good because of the new door style. It was not until the C2 that the payload actually improved beyond the original A model numbers. With that being said, you can usually back off on the fuel and still get very good range while achieving a suitable payload. I have about 23 hours in a 700A and I have about 50 hours in a PC-12/47. They each have a different mission profile. The TBM is a sports car, and the PC-12 is an SUV. The hourly operating costs are similar, but the per mile costs on the TBM are cheaper simply because of the speed difference. The PC-12 is about 260 knots, and the TBM700 is about 295 knots. 4 sets of golf clubs do not work well in the baggage compartment of either airplane, but with the PC-12, there is enough floorspace to stack them behind the back seats.
Click to expand...

Either you haven't packed golf bags into a PC-12 or you are horrible at Tetris (The Snicker bars are the easiest piece). I've put (8) eight cart bags into the cargo compartment of the PC-12. Drop it down to 4 bags and you have plenty of room for suitcases as well. We loaded up 8 last year left Tulsa for a Pinehurst #2 day trip.
 
I flew a gentleman once who had his plane set up with a twin mattress behind the club seating. Yeah, there's a lot of room back there.
 
You are right. Neither of our owners play golf. Apparently, they will fit better than I was able to visualize. I am glad to know that they will fit well. It is funny, I could put four people in a Baron with bags for a week, and not have any problems, but I have not gotten my mind wrapped around baggage loading the PC-12 yet.
SoonerAv8r said:
Either you haven't packed golf bags into a PC-12 or you are horrible at Tetris (The Snicker bars are the easiest piece). I've put (8) eight cart bags into the cargo compartment of the PC-12. Drop it down to 4 bags and you have plenty of room for suitcases as well. We loaded up 8 last year left Tulsa for a Pinehurst #2 day trip.
Click to expand...
 
I used to fly a three-way "fractionally" owned King Air. Two of the owners were private individuals, one a corporation. Prior to acquiring aircraft the owners had absolutely no connection to one another. All three owners lived in different area's within an 80 mile radius. Airplane based at airport closest to pilots. (happened to be best hangar rates), and ferried to pick up owners.

Owners all paid a minimum amount of flight hours per year whether they flew or not. On top of that they billed them self an hourly rate when they flew. Major weekends and Holidays would rotate every year. It sounds good, but unless you have a good group of people, all on the same page it's a very difficult thing to do. If you do go ahead with this I would limit ownership to three.
 
If you know your mission profile before hand you can take the rear seats out of the PC-12 pretty quick and slam a TON of cargo in the back. Good for hunters/fishers. Dead moose or something. haha.
 
So what happens when all 6 owners want to go to their vacation houses the friday before the 4th of July, and those houses are spread out between ACK and SAN? And then they want to come back the Monday after?
 
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